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Old 01-24-2018, 04:48 PM   #21
mtlakejim
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Well as long as the forum police don't shut us down, lets keep going. I have popcorn too!

You can reasonably argue that a DRW is overkill with some of the shorter/lighter 5th wheels out there. You can also reasonably argue that some folks use their trucks for a daily driver and as such the DRW would be a bit of a hassle. I get that. What I am saying is that for towing a larger 5th wheel (which I assume most of you on here own since we are talking higher end Montana's) and strictly talking about SAFETY WHILE TOWING you have to concede that DRW is safer than a SRW. Like I have said many times, "I want more truck than I need, not just barely enough"!

I have towed with SRW and DRW not to mention that I work in the oilfield where we tow a LOT of really heavy stuff. I have yet to see a professional hot shot driver with a SRW! FYI: for those of you who don't know, hot shot drivers pull goosenecks with 1 tons which is very similar to what we are doing with our 5th wheels. They are the FedEx drivers of the oilfield. Stay out of their way on the highway, they are in a hurry!

Hands down I say that the DRW is decidedly better at stopping. It isn't just that there are 2 more pads of rubber on the road it is also that there is significantly more stability! If your towing a heavy 5er at highway speed a DRW WILL stop with more control than a SRW that is a fact jack! If you don't believe that you have not been in a panic stop under load situation in both types of trucks. I have, there is a difference and it is very dramatic!


I'll be honest I started with a lighter personal truck and progressed to the 1 ton diesel dually after some close calls. I wouldn't go back to a lighter truck for heavy towing now even if I could! But does that mean that our second truck will be a 1 ton dually. No it will be a 1/2 ton but then I won't be towing anything heavier than my bass boat with it. Ya know the deal. The 1/2 ton is our daily driver and when it is time for some fishing the Wife pulls the boat and I pull the 5er.

In the end, I think we are OBLIGATED to offer honest unbiased advice to new or prospective owners who do not have the level of towing experience that some of us do. If a newbee asks me what he should tow his new 5th wheel with then I am going to tell him what the minimum is he can get by with and then what is the safest thing to get if it matches his use and he can afford it.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:09 PM   #22
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Interesting comment/assumptions regarding DRW stopping faster vs SRW trucks. On dry pavement yes I'll buy that but on wet pavement I would have to say the tables get turned very quickly, add a little sleet or snow into the mix and the DRW falls behind.

Each to their own and I've said it before, buy and tow with what you feel safe and comfortable with. If you are worried about weight go buy some more for your tow vehicle, I had bought/paid for higher towing weights when I had my 2500 Duramax, not for the RV but for the tractor backhoe trailer combination I tow behind it. When I bought the 2017 3500 duramax the manufacturer weights were already where l needed them so my cost of plates and registration were reduced, I did had some extra for just in case. Just remember in most jurisdictions you don't need a higher level drivers license if towing a recreational vehicle but when you back in and hook up to a horse trailer or industrial trailer etc then you better know exactly what you've got on the back of the tow vehicle and you better have the appropriate drivers license.......otherwise IMHO, for most jurisdictions worrying about RV weights is good for conversation and I've got my popcorn on waiting for the show.
You are likely correct about EMPTY SRW vs DRW but under a load the DRW is going to win the stopping SAFELY battle every time. It may or may not stop in as short of a distance but it won't be as squirrely stopping for certain. I can attest to that first hand on more than one occasion!
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:58 PM   #23
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You have brought up a very good question. The J2807 tow standard specifies stopping from 20 MPH. That’s Walmart parking lot speed. I have searched and can find nothing on stopping on from 70 MPH. From 20 is very different from 70 MPH. How hot will the brakes get? How much will they fade? Can we keep the truck in our lane? The tow standards have very little to do with the way we actually use our campers.
Something else I think has made the tow standards what they are is representatives from the auto companies got together and came up with them. I would have been a lot more comfortable if an independent group of experts would have done it instead of representativeness from the auto companies.
Do a Google search for tow standard J2807. It’s a good read for anyone pulling anything heavy on the road.
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I would LOVE to read the text of SAE J2807, but SAE doesn't give them away, they want $78; otherwise, the only thing I can find online is excerpts, opinions, and analysis. If you have a link, I would like to see it.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #24
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78 dollars do what are they nuts!
Try this. I hope it works if not Google sae toe ratings finally pass the sniff test.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/sa...ss-sniff-test/
I tried the link and I think it works.
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:03 AM   #25
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Hate to burst your bubble on the stopping distances of DRW vs SRW but there have been multiple studies done in regard to this and on wet pavement, snow/sleet the narrower the footprint the better the traction.

There is this thing called hydroplaning ..............

Regardless the argument of safer SRW vs DRW is pointless, it is and should be a personal choice. I've had dually's blow one tire that took out the second instantly so the argument of there are more so it is better in a blow may or may not be an argument depending upon the situation.

All of the arguments are based on a give situation and for some one might be better or the other. Regardless it comes down to what the individual wants.

I don't know why there are those that try and impose their own choices on those looking for advice and others that tell those that have one truck that they can't or shouldn't tow with it and need to go overboard with the rig like they have.

Different strokes for different folks, there is a way too much emphasis put on a couple hundred pounds of weight when we are talking about RV's where for the most part is just hot air as most States/Provinces leave RV's alone.

If you tow other things such as large boats, multiple 4 wheelers, horses etc etc then the weight thing becomes a very real issue quickly as does the requirement for the right licensing...

The thing is if you have the right drivers license you can buy more weight for your tow vehicle, I suspect the guys in the oil fields buy dually's as they can buy more weight than a SRW due in part to the weight limitations on the rear tires.

But here is the thing if you aren't exceeding the tire ratings all the rest of the arguments are all subjective and a personal choice when towing an RV.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:18 AM   #26
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Knowing our 2500 was overloaded even tho it handled the fiver just fine, when we traded, we opted for the 3500 DRW simply because it would not be overloaded and because we are both getting older with slower reflexes and poorer eyesight than we had 10-20 years ago. The DW is able to drive this rig but she would not drive the 2500. Yes, it is a personal choice. A DRW may not be for everyone but it suits us fine.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:31 AM   #27
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DW and I are having to go through the process of getting a drivers license upgrade in order to drive our 3500 dually and haul our so-to-be new 5th wheel. The hassle of it is making me ponder the notion of actually DOWNgrading our TV to a SRW which would bring the GVWR down to the point where we don't need a new drivers license.

The downside is that we'd be up to the max towing capability of the SRW immediately (17000 lb trailer on a 17020 lb capable truck). And in the short time I've had the dually, I've already noticed the incredible stability when recently driving on long bridges warning of severe winds, where lesser winds had pounded non-DRW trucks I've driven before.

The truth is I know I have the right vehicle right now. My 3500 dually will be as stable as heck and won't even break a sweat towing our 5th. But I CAN make the move almost even-up and step down to a lesser truck and not have to do the administrative hassle of the new license, maintaining it, and other truck licensing stuff that the Ontario government insists on (not wanting to hijack the thread with the details).

So really it's down to laziness - which just isn't a good enough reason to be willing to drive around at the expense of a pretty significant safety buffer.

We've made the decision to stick with the 3500 dually but this recent deliberation and second-guessing might be something others have struggled with too.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:06 AM   #28
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I am sure that the written test would be similar to the BC one and is very easy if you read through the test book which you obtain in advance. The driving test was no problem either. The only points I lost was for forgetting to turn off my signal light after changing lanes.
It gives you peace of mind to have the proper endorsement on your licence.
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Old 01-26-2018, 11:15 AM   #29
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Thanks Lenny. I'm doing practice tests online and most of it seems pretty common sense. Even if either of us get almost ALL of the truck-specific questions wrong (unlikely) we'd probably still come out with a passing score. For the road test, I just don't like performing for someone with a clipboard. Never have, but it's a fact of life being a driver, motorcyclist, and pilot, I just don't like it!

Even with the rest of the admin stuff, it's not that any of it is "hard." It's just that it all has to be done, and if my truck had a GVWR of LESS than 6,000 kg (rather than the 6351 kg that the sticker screams), none of this would be necessary. So, just a bit of a P-I-T-A.
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:48 PM   #30
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I gave you in my post that DRW vs SRW is a PERSONAL CHOICE for crying out loud. But at the same time when a person new to towing asks a question are we not OBLIGATED to give him a good unbiased answer based on our personal experience??? It isn't like I am suggesting you need a Kenworth tractor to tow a pop up camper or something geeezzzzz....


My current work truck is an F250 SRW loaded down with tool boxes. I drive it in all sorts of conditions and road types. My personal vehicle is a Ram 3500 DRW but before I bought that I had an F250 exactly like my work truck (which I towed a smaller 5th wheel with and had it get squirrely during a panic stop I might add). I have driven all sorts of trucks all my life and towed with all of them. Hands down the DRW WILL stop more safely than a SRW PERIOD! It isn't that they stop shorter so much as they are less squirrely/more stable when stopping UNDER LOAD!


If a person new to towing that is looking to buy a HEAVY 5th wheel asks for my oppion like the OP did here I am going to give him the following answer: "you can buy whatever you want but it is MY experience that a DRW 1 ton will be the SAFEST thing to tow your heavy 5th wheel with"!


Respectfully I am also going to call BS on your hydroplaning comment. It might well be true of unloaded trucks in the rain or snow (when we should be driving reallllllyyyyyy slow anyway) but under a load and most certainly on dry pavement the DRW will always be more STABLE when stopping. You panic stop a SRW under the load of a heavy 5th wheel and you will often lock up the wheels and skid. I just panic stopped my DRW today coming down a hill while returning from Camping World and she didn't skid at all. Those dual rear wheels brought her right down to a stop smooth as silk and straight as an arrow. Impressed me and I am dang hard to impress.....
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:58 PM   #31
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Hey Outlaw, Your a pilot and since you passed the written and practical for that the commercial should be a breeze. You could always move down here with us. Arkansas doesn't require a CDL for a 1 ton dually.


But then again there a lot of drivers around here that I wish had more training and experience...........
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:27 PM   #32
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:21 PM   #33
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Oh the young.........
Um, what???
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:32 PM   #34
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Why don’t somebody find some proof, SCIENTIFIC proof of your opinion. Until then it’s just opinion and that is just what it is opinion nothing more.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:52 PM   #35
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Hey Outlaw, Your a pilot and since you passed the written and practical for that the commercial should be a breeze. You could always move down here with us. Arkansas doesn't require a CDL for a 1 ton dually.


But then again there a lot of drivers around here that I wish had more training and experience...........
Well, experience can’t be rushed, but we CAN do something about the training. If nothing else I’m certain we’ll be better for the newly acquired training that the license upgrade with force.
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Old 01-26-2018, 03:54 PM   #36
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Why don’t somebody find some proof, SCIENTIFIC proof of your opinion. Until then it’s just opinion and that is just what it is opinion nothing more.
Lynwood
"you can buy whatever you want but it is MY experience that a DRW 1 ton will be the SAFEST thing to tow your heavy 5th wheel with"!


I think that sums it up as an opinion doesn't it?

I am sure the Forum Police are about ready to pull the trigger on me on this thread so I will leave it there......Lets talk about it around the campfire at a rally. I'll even buy the first round......
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Old 01-26-2018, 04:27 PM   #37
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Proof please!
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:01 PM   #38
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Proof please!
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Yep and until ~~~
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:37 PM   #39
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Yep and until ~~~
The only "proof" I offer is my on personal experience. If that isn't good enough then so be it.
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:55 PM   #40
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X 3. By now we should have heard an F350 is needed for a popup and anything heavier requires a dually. Just made a new batch of popcorn 🍿
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X2.. but I am surprised there hasn't been more heated posts.
Looks like we got there.
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