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Old 09-16-2017, 09:19 PM   #1
capras801
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Truck size

Hello, My name is Steve and I am seeking some information on tow weights and how much cargo I can still carry. I have a 2016 F 250 single axile 4x4 6.7 diesel short bed. I am taking ownership of a 2012 Montana 3150 Thursday. I have installed a Pullrite 2700 slider hitch. The 3150 is in near perfect condition with 5.5 onan and satellite added. I have been reading a lot of posts and am concerned that I might be behind on truck size. Any and all comments are welcomed. Great Forum and once again Thanks.
 
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:38 PM   #2
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You need to post your trucks capacities, both pulling and what you have for pin weight when the truck is normally loaded. Then you need to know the weight of your rig, the weight of what you'll put in it and what the actual pin weight of the rig will be. I'm pulling a 3720 with a 2500 Dodge Maxi Cab 4X4 and I'm good on weight, but don't have much to spare particularly on pin weight.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:43 AM   #3
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Ya know what if you didn't read these kinds of posts on these forums you would hook up to your new trailer and tow it everywhere for years and be happy. Many on these forums fret about weights and having to have dually's etc.....

I have towed some big 5'ers and some heavy cargo on conventional trailers, I towed my 3790RD all over Canada and the USA with my 2500HD Chevy SRW and in rehad no issues at all. Never felt out of control, never had any issues with crosswinds and no issues with braking or anything else.

Fact is recent years the F250 and the GM 2500HD's are essentially the same truck as an F350/3500HD other than a slightly different rear spring pack (helper springs) on the 350/3500hd.

Brakes are the same etc.... From what I understand Ford does have different rear end gears in some but that is an ordering thing and quite frankly not all that hard to change if required.

If you were not thinking about trading your truck in before then I'd say drive it with your trailer on it, try it out for a while and see if it is okay for YOU (not for everyone else)...

Might want to throw in some airbags if it squats but that will also be your call once you see whether it tows the trailer satisfactorily for you....

Way too many people get hung up in the weight game...

I traded my 2015 2500HD in on a 2017 3500HD SRW this summer, not because the 2500hd wouldn't handle the trailer but because the dealer called me and gave me a screaming good deal to trade. I love the power in the new one (way higher torque & HP ) love the transmission shift point changes and the computer steering changes but other than that its the same truck essentially and handles pretty much exactly the same other than it squats a bit more than the 2500 did which I attribute to the spring pack being lighter prior to hitting the helpers....

Good luck and relax..........go have some fun behind the wheel before making your mind up.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:50 AM   #4
capras801
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truck size

Great advice, Thanks
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:51 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by speedster100 View Post
Ya know what if you didn't read these kinds of posts on these forums you would hook up to your new trailer and tow it everywhere for years and be happy. Many on these forums fret about weights and having to have dually's etc.....

I have towed some big 5'ers and some heavy cargo on conventional trailers, I towed my 3790RD all over Canada and the USA with my 2500HD Chevy SRW and in rehad no issues at all. Never felt out of control, never had any issues with crosswinds and no issues with braking or anything else.

Fact is recent years the F250 and the GM 2500HD's are essentially the same truck as an F350/3500HD other than a slightly different rear spring pack (helper springs) on the 350/3500hd.

Brakes are the same etc.... From what I understand Ford does have different rear end gears in some but that is an ordering thing and quite frankly not all that hard to change if required.

If you were not thinking about trading your truck in before then I'd say drive it with your trailer on it, try it out for a while and see if it is okay for YOU (not for everyone else)...

Might want to throw in some airbags if it squats but that will also be your call once you see whether it tows the trailer satisfactorily for you....

Way too many people get hung up in the weight game...

I traded my 2015 2500HD in on a 2017 3500HD SRW this summer, not because the 2500hd wouldn't handle the trailer but because the dealer called me and gave me a screaming good deal to trade. I love the power in the new one (way higher torque & HP ) love the transmission shift point changes and the computer steering changes but other than that its the same truck essentially and handles pretty much exactly the same other than it squats a bit more than the 2500 did which I attribute to the spring pack being lighter prior to hitting the helpers....

Good luck and relax..........go have some fun behind the wheel before making your mind up.
No truer words were ever spoken. Hook up your truck try it and enjoy.
Ford does have a different rear end but it's on the DRW trucks. The F250 and F350 have the same rear end.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:03 AM   #6
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I agree with Speedster100. I have the same truck as Capres but mine is a 15. You will love the power of the 6.7 Thje brakes are outstanding on these trucks. I did add airbags to my truck because squat was terrible and I discovered that they helped with the ride. If you do with your RV like me I took 2 trips across the USA and visited many cities so there was a lot of air up and down so after 1st trip I added the on board air compressor. I have a 03 Montana loaded the trailer weighs in at about 13,000# My truck has no problem at all. I have towed it in wind rain and maybe this year some snow going to Iowa in first week of November. I carry a torque wrench to check the lug nuts because I have towed 1,200 miles each trip and it doesnt hurt to check them a couple times. If you have a tire blowout on a trailer than it tends to tear up stuff. Happy towing.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:05 AM   #7
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I don't normally consider myself part of the weight police, but there are NO 3/4 ton trucks legally capable of towing heavy pin weight fifth wheels such as the unit you are going to tow.

You did not mention which cab configuration you have (Reg/super/crew etc.)

From the specs I can look up on your truck it appears your issue will be payload capacity.

Your truck is rated to tow up to 16,200 lbs. The Montana has a GVWR of 14,160 (OK there)

Payload capacity's of you truck with different cabs, (from fords towing guide) this includes any people/cargo/fuel/options etc. that are in the truck.

Regular cab 2703 lbs.
Super cab 141.8" WB 2000 lbs.
Super cab 158" WB 1793 lbs.
Crew cab 156.2 WB 1792 lbs.
Crew cab 172.4 WB 1586 lbs.


Your Montana could and probably will weigh out at or near its maximum weight of 14160 lbs.

Fifth wheels generally have a pin weight of between 15 to 25% of its weight.
14160 at 15%=2134 lbs.
14160 at 20%=2832 lbs.
14160 at 25%=3540 lbs.

So unless you have a Regular cab truck (which I doubt) the pin weight of the Montana alone (without any people/cargo in the bed/fuel etc..) will most likely be Way over the trucks legal capability's.


I tow my 2011 3455sa Montana (which is heavier) with a 2014 GMC 3500 dually.
I towed my camper with my 2011 3500 SRW and it was down right scary at times, as I could feel the camper pushing the trucks rear end around quite a bit. (not a good feeling)

There are hundreds of thousands of people towing heavy fifth wheels around with 3/4 ton trucks every day, seemingly without any issues. But nearly every one of those who do so are over grossly over weight.

If you can afford to, and are not bothered by driving a dually, you will not be disappointed at the stability they provide towing a heavy fifth wheel around.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:42 AM   #8
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No sorry sir but based on below you are the weight police and one of the reasons guys like our poster start to get nervous. As YOU say YOU were scared or as you say was downright scary, not sure why as load capacity sitting on the axles has little to nothing to do with towing other than squatting which can easily be fixed via airbags, springs or similar.

I don't normally consider myself part of the weight police, but there are NO 3/4 ton trucks legally capable of towing heavy pin weight fifth wheels such as the unit you are going to tow.

You did not mention which cab configuration you have (Reg/super/crew etc.)

From the specs I can look up on your truck it appears your issue will be payload capacity.

Your truck is rated to tow up to 16,200 lbs. The Montana has a GVWR of 14,160 (OK there)

Payload capacity's of you truck with different cabs, (from fords towing guide) this includes any people/cargo/fuel/options etc. that are in the truck.

Regular cab 2703 lbs.
Super cab 141.8" WB 2000 lbs.
Super cab 158" WB 1793 lbs.
Crew cab 156.2 WB 1792 lbs.
Crew cab 172.4 WB 1586 lbs.


Your Montana could and probably will weigh out at or near its maximum weight of 14160 lbs.

Fifth wheels generally have a pin weight of between 15 to 25% of its weight.
14160 at 15%=2134 lbs.
14160 at 20%=2832 lbs.
14160 at 25%=3540 lbs.

So unless you have a Regular cab truck (which I doubt) the pin weight of the Montana alone (without any people/cargo in the bed/fuel etc..) will most likely be Way over the trucks legal capability's.


I tow my 2011 3455sa Montana (which is heavier) with a 2014 GMC 3500 dually.
I towed my camper with my 2011 3500 SRW and it was down right scary at times, as I could feel the camper pushing the trucks rear end around quite a bit. (not a good feeling)

There are hundreds of thousands of people towing heavy fifth wheels around with 3/4 ton trucks every day, seemingly without any issues. But nearly every one of those who do so are over grossly over weight.

If you can afford to, and are not bothered by driving a dually, you will not be disappointed at the stability they provide towing a heavy fifth wheel around.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:22 AM   #9
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:37 AM   #10
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over weight + accident = LAWSUIT
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:44 PM   #11
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X2, fatcatzzz. Ignorance is bliss 'til an accident happens! I too get frustrated with the "weight police" and all of the other opinions. My luck has never been that good, so I do pay attention to the facts, not opinions.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:49 PM   #12
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My post was full of facts. If people choose to ignore them, there is not much anyone can do, so let me give the OP a possible real life example of some more facts.

If he has a regular cab truck, its payload is 2703 lbs
-150 lbs for hitch
-150 lbs for sprayed on liner
-600 lbs for 4 passengers
-500 lbs for truck of fire wood
=1303 lbs left for camper pin
There is no way that Montana will have a pin weight of less that 1303 lbs.... It will be closer to double that+.

This is all about the facts to keep everyone of us as safe as possible.


Look at the payloads for the same truck in a dually. Its more that twice as much.

Reg cab 6262 lbs
Super cab 5330 lbs
Crew cab 5112 lbs

Air bags/helper springs and the like do absolutely nothing to increase the weight carrying capacity of a truck. They only decrease the amount of squat.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
My post was full of facts. If people choose to ignore them, there is not much anyone can do, so let me give the OP a possible real life example of some more facts.

If he has a regular cab truck, its payload is 2703 lbs
-150 lbs for hitch
-150 lbs for sprayed on liner
-600 lbs for 4 passengers
-500 lbs for truck of fire wood
=1303 lbs left for camper pin
There is no way that Montana will have a pin weight of less that 1303 lbs.... It will be closer to double that+.

This is all about the facts to keep everyone of us as safe as possible.


Look at the payloads for the same truck in a dually. Its more that twice as much.

Reg cab 6262 lbs
Super cab 5330 lbs
Crew cab 5112 lbs

Air bags/helper springs and the like do absolutely nothing to increase the weight carrying capacity of a truck. They only decrease the amount of squat.
^^^^^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE^^^^^^^^

People your 3/4 ton truck is not rated for 2500# of pin weight, weight of 5th wheel hitch, any gear or wood in the back and you and your wife's butts in the truck plus all the stuff you store under your seats.

I had a brand new 2017 F250 Crew that pulled my 3950BR absolutely fine, BUT I was 1100# easily over my GVWR. Its not will your truck do it, it is will it do it legally because you are liable in any accident your fault or not. Hurt someone and a lawyer will own everything you have and will ever have past that point.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:18 AM   #14
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Oh if you are setting at a red light and someone broad sides you it's your fault. How does that work? Won't your insurance cover you? What is the point of having insurance?
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:32 AM   #15
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Oh if you are setting at a red light and someone broad sides you it's your fault. How does that work? Won't your insurance cover you? What is the point of having insurance?
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If asking about how legally you are at fault if overweight setting at a light and someone hits you....

You are the overweight and illegal vehicle in the incident and "you should have not been on the road according to the law" so you are immediately at fault because had you not been there the now victim (really the person that cause the issue is now a victim) might not have hit you.

Stupid as it is... let a lawyer at you in court, no longer stupid.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:47 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Oh if you are setting at a red light and someone broad sides you it's your fault. How does that work? Won't your insurance cover you? What is the point of having insurance?
Lynwood
Civil lawyers will use argue you should not be on the road at all. Your overweight! A lot has to do with what state this happens in.
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:15 AM   #17
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Oh I've got it, someone hitting you didn't matter.
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:22 AM   #18
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To me it matters a lot if you get hit. To the lawyers not so much. They will go where the money is.
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:08 AM   #19
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OMG this is the reason these types of threads are useless......

So you are lets say 500lbs over the "cargo capacity" of your 250/2500 towing a "recreational vehicle not a commercial load and you are in a major accident, parts and pieces are laying everywhere, fluids have ran down the road, everything in the truck, everything in the trailer has shifted and moved due to the accident.

How are they going to determine pin weight, trailer weight etc etc again ???

Those that have huge trucks 450 dually's whatever don't make them safer and better drivers towing 5 wheel recreational vehicles, quite frankly many people pulling these trailers regardless of the size of the trailer &/or the tow vehicle shouldn't be on the road period.

Safety is the key and primary concern not a friggin sticker on the door !

As a licensed Class A commerical driver for 40years I've seen my share of drivers that shouldn't be behind the wheel of any size truck & trailer (if ya can't back it up you shouldn't be driving !).

But unfortunately for most of North America there is no requirement to prove you can handle a large recreational vehicle. So for some folks they likely need all the advantages they can get and then will still fall short.

Stickers on the door don't tell the story in an accident, proving fault after thorough investigations will.

If it was such a big huge concern as many try to make it seem it is they would have already legislated laws as they have with Commercial loads and vehicles to deal with this problem.

But as someone who already posted with "Facts" pointed out there are hundreds of of thousands of 250/2500 pickup trucks on the roads of North America pulling large 5 wheel recreational trailers.......

My guess is there have been more than a few of them (and larger 350/3500/450/4500) trucks involved in accidents pulling recreational trailers over the past few years, lots of carnage, lots of liquids spilled, lots of parts strewn, lots of cargo moved or thrown from the accident site.

Do you really believe they are going to gather all this stuff up and recover all the liquids in such a scene and weigh everything so months later some lawyer can file a suit and try and prove that a vehicle might have been 500lbs over its cargo weight ????

50 Gallons of water would change that number as an example of how easy it is to change. Moving some stuff from the front to the rear of the trailer would change it, seriously !!!

As I indicated to the individual looking for advice who already purchased and owns a 2016 Ford F250 and just bought his Montana, will it tow it safely ? Yes it will, will he be happy with the way it tows ? He won't know till he does it.... Does he need to go spend another $20,000 to upgrade to a 350 so he has a sticker on the door ??? I highly doubt the need unless he feels it necessary due to his own personal driving style and or requirement.

Will air bags or an additional spring increase carrying capacity of the truck ? Yes it will however it won't change the sticker.

Personally I would like to see it mandatory to have anyone driving a rig over a set weight of 7000lbs - 10,000 to have to get a license through testing & demonstration of abilities before getting behind the wheel. That would make the roads alot safer, that would give them a better understanding of a Safe Tow Vehicle vs worrying about a sticker on the door....

But alas it likely won't happen due in part to the RV industry lobbying and as a result the Recreational Vehicle Weight Police will continue to cause undue stress to many who really don't need to be worrying so much about a few hundred pounds and needing to go to the same truck with different numbers on the fender and a different sticker on the door to get a couple extra springs and could then pay more attention to the road and honing their driving skills, while driving properly to conditions .........
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:44 PM   #20
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I don't think the accident investigators are going to gather fluids and scrap pieces of trailer. What they will do (my opinion) is gather data i.e.: type of truck, type of trailer, the data from these vehicles from the manufacture and make a determination. You, being a trucker over 40 years, have probably seen countless accidents and to think that the accident investigators would gather fluids and such? C'mon Man! I agree to your point of having additional instructions when owning/driving/towing a large RV. Maybe then, people will realize that just because you own a truck, you can't necessarily tow whatever RV you want without assuming some risks.
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