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10-26-2012, 03:38 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Goodyear reply from the 'Tire guy' that troublesho
Note: My thanks to my hero: John Kohl, for unraveling a 'Glitch' (Or a better guess, my incompetence) in getting this info to you folks.
Thank you Buddy.
From: "dick.anderson@goodyear.com"
To: Jim Osbern
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Montana Owners Club tire issues
Glad you have your issue resolved. Attached is a page from the Technology
& Maintenance Council of the American Trucking Associations Inc. "Radial
Tire Conditions and Analysis Guide" put out as a guide to the trucking
industry. The condition your photo's show are very similar to the "rapid
shoulder wear - both shoulders" condition found on page 158 ( see
attached). This wear condition is found on a number of free rolling axle
positions, like your fifth wheel RV. It's not a soft tire shoulder or
unique condition. The wear seen in our photo's would be rated moderate at
this point. Severe would be when you see belt wire material showing thru.
Well, it still didn't work, but the information Dick showed from the tire book stated over-inflation, and normal operation of "Spread axles" and over-inflation of dolly applications.
My take: a poor tire design, and improper rubber mix for our trailers.
The old Mission 'China Bombs' didn't do this, just exploded when they felt like it.
I would not buy a Goodyear G14 again, and I imagine my tires will wear the same as the last ones. (These had only 4500 miles on them)
I advise people to not buy them, get another brand, Lonnie has a good list of good tires.
JMHO based on my bad wear with them.
Ozz
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10-26-2012, 05:00 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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Based on what's happened to you, I'll be watching mine.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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10-26-2012, 06:36 PM
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#3
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburg
Posts: 117
M.O.C. #8384
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ME TOO my 614's are having the same sholder wear.8,000 miles on them. The sholders are gone on two.There is easy 10,000 miles left on the center tread. I have had it. I have had the axles checked,alligned, spring hangers checked and reinforced. wet bolt bushing replaced. The tire presure I run is 105lbs. I run pretty heavy. But mostly on the pin. the only thing left to try is lower the presure,but it sounds like you guys run from 95-100+ and are still having the problem for the most part. I am now inclined to buy another brand if I am going to get the same miles and wear.Can someone tell me where to get a similar wieght tire in comparison under 300.00 ea.
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10-27-2012, 02:02 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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So in a nut shell, they are blaming over inflation that results in a wear pattern that indicates under inflation? I'm not a tire engineer, but that sounds a bit weird. It would be interesting to find out the exact PSI recommendations for your weight trailer and run one axle at that weight and the other at 110PSI and compare the wear factor of the tires to see if they are right.
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10-27-2012, 03:00 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vermontville
Posts: 1,129
M.O.C. #9045
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Goes right back to what we have been talking about. Start out pressure and actual running pressure are the culprit. I always start out below recommnended pressure and with the heat it grows in pressure. About 10 lbs on an 80's actual air temp. Over mid 90's you will gain 15 lbs.
Dave
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10-27-2012, 03:40 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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All last year, (the first 3500 miles,) I was running the tires at 110#. Only at the start of this 1000 or so trip, i dropped to a cold pressure of 100#, as recommended by the tire chart we all have, or have access to. The running pressure turned out to be 106 to 108, Then around 500 miles ago, I went back to a cold 110#.
So, his under-inflation reasoning has no merit.
The tires, in my case, and many others just are a bad tire for our rigs.
Bottom line.
I would go with Lonnie's list of tires recommended.
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10-27-2012, 03:52 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,657
M.O.C. #9969
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What I find very interesting, I put almost 20K on the G614s I had put on our Montana in Aug of 2010 (mfr'd within a month of install) and they showed no wear and looked almost brand new. Now our SOB was ordered with G614s and picked up Apr 2012 and the mfr date on those were within a few months of delivery. Now these have approx 8K on them and are starting to show the edge wear pattern. Really makes one wonder if Goodyear might have changed process on the 614s. Guess I'll keep an eye on them.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
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10-27-2012, 04:40 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771
What I find very interesting, I put almost 20K on the G614s I had put on our Montana in Aug of 2010 (mfr'd within a month of install) and they showed no wear and looked almost brand new. Now our SOB was ordered with G614s and picked up Apr 2012 and the mfr date on those were within a few months of delivery. Now these have approx 8K on them and are starting to show the edge wear pattern. Really makes one wonder if Goodyear might have changed process on the 614s. Guess I'll keep an eye on them.
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I think you are correct, that has to be the answer, as some older ones have no abnormal wear, like yours.
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10-27-2012, 04:50 AM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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If that's true, I wonder why they made a change.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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10-27-2012, 04:55 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DQDick
If that's true, I wonder why they made a change.
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Bean-counters, Buddy, bean-counters...
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10-27-2012, 05:50 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sebring
Posts: 3,657
M.O.C. #9969
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Or some Engineer's brain storm on paper to make the tire better that in reality makes them worse. My next move for our Rig will be MorRyde IS and 17.5 wheels with H rated tires.
__________________
Michelle & Ann
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country DRW 4X4 Crew Cab w/Duramax/Allison, Formally 2010 Montana 2955RL, Now Loaded 2016 SOB, Mor/ryde IS, Disc Brakes & Pin Box, Comfort Ride Hitch, Sailun 17.5 Tires.
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10-27-2012, 06:50 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mhs4771
Or some Engineer's brain storm on paper to make the tire better that in reality makes them worse. My next move for our Rig will be MorRyde IS and 17.5 wheels with H rated tires.
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Heck! Now I am envious. Good plan.
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10-27-2012, 11:22 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 908
M.O.C. #7915
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Champ_49
Goes right back to what we have been talking about. Start out pressure and actual running pressure are the culprit. I always start out below recommnended pressure and with the heat it grows in pressure. About 10 lbs on an 80's actual air temp. Over mid 90's you will gain 15 lbs.
Dave
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Everybody can certainly do as they wish, but my GY tire manual says to start the day with the correct pressure for the weight and temperature right then. It also states 'working' inflation will increase 5 - 15 PSI when the tire warms up, which is okay. Another tip is do NOT (their caps) bleed air from hot tires.
TP is supporting the load, not the tire.
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10-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Hooker, you may be right, but look at it this way, what if the temperatures are say 30 degrees, you look at the suggested tire pressures for the tire: 100# at the corresponding weight. You want 100# in the tires. Tha t seems logical to me.
Now we moved to Arizona, it's 106 degrees the highway is probably 140? on the blacktop, do you want 100# in the driveway? What happens when you get 30 miles down the road, what are the pressures then? 135? Say you are traveling 600 miles that day, do you want 100# in them, or 135# in them?
I know what they say, I read Goodyear's tire information ( www.goodyear.com/rv)
I understand, but to me it just doesn't work out, knowing the extreme temperatures we may drive in.
100# is 100#
If a guy had the tires loaded to the max at...whatever it is 3440?? anyway, if he had the tires maxed out, and had 110# in them, it's 106 out, highway is 140 degrees, do you still inflate them cold at 110? Seems like that would be a bad idea.
I don't know the answers, just have my questions. I may be way off, but it just does not make sense to me.
BTW, I did not change my tire pressures; as in let some air out until I was at around 4200 of my 4500 miles on the self-shredding Goodyears. I, at that point was really let-down on my confidence level of the tires. (The tires were new, just had the replacments put on)
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10-28-2012, 04:58 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 908
M.O.C. #7915
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Beats me, Ozz. I figure the engineers at GY are testing all these recommendations and are providing the best information that is available. One of the keys is to check the TP each morning. When you get to AZ, the tires must be rechecked because the TP will be different due to elevation and temp.
A 10 degree F change in temp will change the TP 2% in the same direction of the temp change.
Altitude will change .48 psi for every 1,000' of altitude change, in the same direction as the change. Higher alt means higher TP.
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10-28-2012, 05:59 AM
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#16
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 330
M.O.C. #8078
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We've only slightly over 3000 miles on ours...and thanks to Ozz took a look at 'em and discovered the same wear pattern....so unfortunate the amount paid and high tech expected on these! Thanks for the notice....will keep an eye on them.
__________________
Deets
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10-28-2012, 06:00 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mesa az
Posts: 2,920
M.O.C. #5651
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I run Michelin tires on Monty. I don't have as much weight as most of you since I have a 2980. But I put a lot of miles on the trailer. I currently have over 45000 miles on the tires and it still has probably 5-10,000 left. It has been a while so my memory isn't too good, but the original tires got around 35-40000 - they were Tacomas and I replaced them as I was headed to Alaska. I used Michelins on the Silverado also. Michelins are not cheap but still less than the G14's. And they work on 80# rims (I think that is the lesser rated rims, right???)
Just my 2 cents worth.
__________________
Tom and Gail
2013 Mountaineer 362
2012 Silverado 2500
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10-28-2012, 10:54 AM
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#18
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
Hooker, you may be right, but look at it this way, what if the temperatures are say 30 degrees, you look at the suggested tire pressures for the tire: 100# at the corresponding weight. You want 100# in the tires. Tha t seems logical to me.
Now we moved to Arizona, it's 106 degrees the highway is probably 140? on the blacktop, do you want 100# in the driveway? What happens when you get 30 miles down the road, what are the pressures then? 135? Say you are traveling 600 miles that day, do you want 100# in them, or 135# in them?
I know what they say, I read Goodyear's tire information (www.goodyear.com/rv)
I understand, but to me it just doesn't work out, knowing the extreme temperatures we may drive in.
100# is 100#
If a guy had the tires loaded to the max at...whatever it is 3440?? anyway, if he had the tires maxed out, and had 110# in them, it's 106 out, highway is 140 degrees, do you still inflate them cold at 110? Seems like that would be a bad idea.
I don't know the answers, just have my questions. I may be way off, but it just does not make sense to me.
BTW, I did not change my tire pressures; as in let some air out until I was at around 4200 of my 4500 miles on the self-shredding Goodyears. I, at that point was really let-down on my confidence level of the tires. (The tires were new, just had the replacments put on)
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Ozz, the one thing that struck me as I read this is doesn't the truck tires do the same thing without problems? Just wondering.
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10-28-2012, 12:50 PM
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#19
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 431
M.O.C. #11342
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Pressure change from cold inflation pressure to running pressure is relative to delta temperature. Cold tire pressure is always ambient. how much difference in pressure are you seeing from 106 cold to running pressure after rolling some miles at highway speeds?
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10-28-2012, 05:06 PM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Macomb
Posts: 293
M.O.C. #5709
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This may or may not apply but I was employed at one of Detroits auto companies and worked at the engineering facility. I was checking on tire sizes in their engineering books and they also list a "grow factor" at 60 MPH. Tires expand at speed and if the belts are not properly laid in place maybe the outer edges are expanding more than the centers causing unusual wear patterns. Just a thought.
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