Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #21
1retired06
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
To beat a dead horse, for those with the Ford 6.7, use the 5W40 Synthetic under load, or risk your warranty. Read your owners manual.
 
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
1retired06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 03:29 PM   #22
Ren
Montana Fan
 
Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Port
Posts: 271
M.O.C. #10954
Yep.. Gonna start doing my own oil changes. No biggie on doing myself, Im used to turning wrenches.

After looking at the few extra quarts I bought from the dealer... thinking it was 15w 40... it was 10w-30!!!! GRRRRRRR... (censored) !!!

So.. I found some really good links for your viewing pleasure, these are mostly Ford 6.7L specific.

Ordered my filters from here. http://www.diesel-filters.com/2011-F...s-and-pcv.html

An independant study on which oils have what additives. Pretty good read actually. www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf

A video on changing the fuel filters.



And one on the oil change.



I figure I can change my fuel, air, and change my oil and filter for a few dollars more than paying the dealer to do only my oil change... and Ill be using better oil... and all of my filters will be changed.
__________________
2021 Montana 3121RL w/ Cobalt Paint
2019 F-450 w/ airbags and 25k BW Companion
Ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #23
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TLightning

I've talked to many OTR truckers who swear by Rotella 15w40, that's good enough for me. The cold starting argument really doesn't make much sense. All of these diesels (I think) have a preheat feature which should be used below 40 degrees.
What pre-heat feature are you talking about? GM comes with a plug in water heater, if that what's you are referring to. It does not heat the oil, only the block, and GM recommends it use at below zero temps.
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 07:43 AM   #24
farmboy
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Vernon
Posts: 261
M.O.C. #9087
Send a message via Yahoo to farmboy
The factory put synthetic in the tranny and rearend, so why should I not put it in the engine. I did just that 100k ago. No regrets.
farmboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 08:12 AM   #25
grayghost03
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Roswell
Posts: 627
M.O.C. #12028
Send a message via MSN to grayghost03
Just wondering, does anyone look at engine hours? I know that my Ram 2500 shows hours. Does Ford and GM diesels show hours. I worked with a lot of heavy equipment for years, and we did everything on engine run time, of course mileage didn't mean anything.
grayghost03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #26
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by grayghost03

Just wondering, does anyone look at engine hours? I know that my Ram 2500 shows hours. Does Ford and GM diesels show hours. I worked with a lot of heavy equipment for years, and we did everything on engine run time, of course mileage didn't mean anything.
I don't now because since I retired, I don't drive any where the miles or hours where it would matter. I use Mobil 1 with an Amsoil filter and bypass filter and change everything once a year, which amounts to about 8K miles or less. Last year was closer to 5K.
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:10 PM   #27
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,520
M.O.C. #2283
The 08 and newer fords will show engine hours.
I have a friend who is a chemical engineer. He worked making engine oil additive packages for all the major oil companies. I was thinking about this discussion and ask him about oil. Several thing he said were interesting. He said oil that comes from different places had to have different additives because the base oil was different. Standard petroleum oil had to have more additives because it had more "bad stuff in it" that had to be neutralized than synthetic. He also said synthetic was better oil. I ask which oil was the worst oil made. His answer, Pensoil. Why? The additives they used were not as good. He said they would buy additives that would be rejected by every one else.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 02:59 AM   #28
bethandkevin
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Davison
Posts: 785
M.O.C. #12331
The oil that I use for the police vehicles at work is a semi-synthetic (Cam2). A few years back we switched to it because of a sludging problem. At the time we were changing oil every 4,000 miles or 6-7 days of driving. At some point we started to have a problem building oil pressure at first start after the oil change. We pulled the oil pan on one Tahoe and found the oil sump(screen) nearly completely blocked by sludge. We spoke with the supplier and had the oil analyzed. Supplier stated we were running the oil too long and getting it too hot. Really, 4,000 miles in 6-7 days was too long? The problem developed shortly after our bulk oil tank was filled, so we asked if they had changed suppliers. What do you know, they had switched from Havoline to a house brand oil that was parafin based. We spent a lot of time and money changing all the oil sumps and two seized engines in our fleet. Changed to the Cam2 product and found we could run the change interval longer to 6,000 miles. With the old oil, the vehicle's oil life minder light never came on prior to service, with the new oil it comes on at nearly the same time we sticker it for next service. We've had many instances of drivers being bad and bringing vehicles in severely over-due for service and yet no oil pressure or engine problems. I am definately a believer in synthetic oil. If it can stand up to the rigors that our deputies put it through, that alone is proof enough for me. By the way-all synthetics or blends aren't expensive. Our vendor has held the price below $8.00/gallon for more than four years now. I can't buy cheap conventional oil for that.
bethandkevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 03:16 AM   #29
Tom S.
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mlh

The 08 and newer fords will show engine hours.
I have a friend who is a chemical engineer. He worked making engine oil additive packages for all the major oil companies. I was thinking about this discussion and ask him about oil. Several thing he said were interesting. He said oil that comes from different places had to have different additives because the base oil was different. Standard petroleum oil had to have more additives because it had more "bad stuff in it" that had to be neutralized than synthetic. He also said synthetic was better oil. I ask which oil was the worst oil made. His answer, Pensoil. Why? The additives they used were not as good. He said they would buy additives that would be rejected by every one else.
Lynwood
While I have never seen absolute proof about Pennzoil being bad, I have read and heard enough comments like yours to stay away from it.
Tom S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 03:57 AM   #30
Gkerlin
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Beaufort
Posts: 545
M.O.C. #12221
For those of you who might be interested in a bit of the technological discussion....

One of the big benefits of Synthetic over Conventional is it's greater shear strength.

Certain spots in the engine such as piston bearings, crankshaft etc develop great pressures between the metallic surfaces. During acceleration, heavy towing, up steep grades and so on those pressures are even greater. All of that pressure is concentrated on small surfaces. The oil is between those metallic surfaces that are moving in opposite directions and its job is to keep those surfaces held apart... however so slightly.

These pressures try to rip the oil apart... shear it. Take a wet paper towel between your hands - press hard and move them in different directions. The towel will rip apart. That's what is happening to the oil on the molecular level.

The long chain molecules in oil constantly are getting ripped apart and the oil slowly breaks down. A 40w could eventually be a 10w due to its sheared long chain molecules causing a loss of lubricity. You are slowly losing that protective barrier that separates the moving parts.

The molecules in synthetic are much much stronger and resist that shearing. They keep those moving parts separated much better and under more severe conditions.

Shear however is only one part of the equation. Additives also play a part. They serve many purposes... for instance some additives allow the oil to cling better to metallic surfaces. This keeps a thin film barrier on the parts between rotations, or during periods of non use.
Gkerlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2012, 01:27 PM   #31
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,520
M.O.C. #2283
For those of you who might be interested in a bit of the technological discussion....
Yes I'm interested! Thanks.
Thanks
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 01:37 PM   #32
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
Checked all through the Diesel Engine Supplement to my 2012 Ford F350 Owners Manual. The oils listed do not say synthetic. They just say "Motor Oil" with different weights for the various seasons. The gasoline engine part requires all synthetic oils. Unless I'm misinterpreting something, the synthetic requirement does not pertain to diesel engines.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 02:58 PM   #33
Ren
Montana Fan
 
Ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Port
Posts: 271
M.O.C. #10954
Don. It doesnt specifically state to use synthetic, but you will not find 5w-40 in a non-synthetic oil. Synthetic use is kinda implied. I will be using the Rotella T-6 5w-40.
__________________
2021 Montana 3121RL w/ Cobalt Paint
2019 F-450 w/ airbags and 25k BW Companion
Ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 03:02 PM   #34
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
Ren, there is enough good information in this discussion to lead me to use a good full synthetic, whether it's required or not.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #35
Arve-norway
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Nærbø
Posts: 47
M.O.C. #12964
Send a message via MSN to Arve-norway
syntetic is to fine to detroit diesel 6.5td i use mobil delvac 15/40 werry god oil.. fine oil pressure to next oil change. but we dont have 40-
Arve-norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 10:56 AM   #36
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
I have not read all four pages of posts so please forgive if this has already been said. You might wait until after 30,000 miles before switching to synthetic. The engine manual for our 2007 Ram says not to switch to synthetic until 30,000 miles or it will impede engine breakin.

I take that to mean synthetic significantly reduces friction which is excellent both for mileage and engine longevity. I waited until after 30,000 miles then went to Rotella T 5w40 synthetic and oil and filter changes at 10,000 miles. The truck will turn 92,000 miles tomorrow and is always full of oil at oil change time. It has never had to have oil added between changes. I'm fully sold on the benefits of synthetic but not until after breakin.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 02:10 AM   #37
1retired06
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DonandBonnie

Checked all through the Diesel Engine Supplement to my 2012 Ford F350 Owners Manual. The oils listed do not say synthetic. They just say "Motor Oil" with different weights for the various seasons. The gasoline engine part requires all synthetic oils. Unless I'm misinterpreting something, the synthetic requirement does not pertain to diesel engines.
Wrong. Manual specifically addresses use of 5W40 which is a synthetic
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
1retired06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 03:19 AM   #38
DonandBonnie
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Madison
Posts: 1,239
M.O.C. #5906
Mike, For sure I'm not doing anything that goes against the the manufacturers specifications. I wonder why that all of the discussion in the owners manual specifically mentions "synthetic" for gasoline engines, but you don't see the word mentioned for diesel engines.
DonandBonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 07:01 AM   #39
1retired06
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
Dont know the answer to that, but page 45 of the diesel supplement is clear: for severe conditions, use 5W40. Ford, Rotella and other brands of 5W40 are all synthetic. Guess Ford felt if you use the correct oil stipulated, that is all you need to know. I do not like having to use Synthetic since I change oil far sooner than Ford recommends but I have found no SAE5W40 that is not synthetic. Discussions with two separate dealership service managers confirmed that my pulling of my Montana meets the severe condition definition and it is important to use the 5W40 as directed in the manual. Some folks on this forum and the Ford diesel forum have chosen to use 15W40 anyway, and that is their call. I will not risk a 100,000 mile warranty to save a few bucks.
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
1retired06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #40
illapah
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Layton
Posts: 1,048
M.O.C. #666
Who knew?
Grades of oil.
Motor oils are derived from base stocks. That is, a generic oil base is modified with additives to produce a lubricant with the desired properties. A base stock oil with no additives would not perform very well at all. Base stocks are classified by the American Petroleum Institute (API) and fall into one of five categories.

Group I and II - these are mineral oils derived from crude oil
Group III - this is a highly refined mineral oil made through a process called hydrocracking. In North America this group is considered a synthetic oil, for marketing purposes.
Group IV - these are true synthetic oils, known as Polyalphaolefin (PAO).
Group V - these are synthetic stocks other than PAO's and include esters and other compounds.
illapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Synthetic oil or not? kramperD Tow Vehicles & Towing 28 10-09-2011 02:43 PM
synthetic oil ragdoll Tow Vehicles & Towing 27 02-03-2010 01:33 AM
Synthetic Oil for Cummins Diesel jkmcdonald Additions & Improvements 16 05-23-2009 03:12 AM
Synthetic Oil Cat320 Tow Vehicles & Towing 24 06-09-2007 06:12 AM
Synthetic Oil Rob Cooley Tow Vehicles & Towing 0 12-15-2002 02:52 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.