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Old 11-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #1
richfaa
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We are clean.

Had the Big Sky detailed today here in Florida. Complete hand wash and dry, roof, awnings, wheels, chrome. The roof is shinny white and the rig looks like it just came off the assembly line. One guy on the roof and three on the Rv. They were here for 1:15 mins. Cost 70.00 and worth every $$ to me. This top of the line, best you can buy Montana Big Sky looks good.
 
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:24 AM   #2
bncinwv
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Dang, wish I could get ours done for $70!! Curious to see how the paint holds up with regards to dirt anyway. Seems like black vehicles are always dirty looking, are the painted rigs the same?
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:29 AM   #3
richfaa
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Bingo . Maybe it is just me but IMO the paint does not show the dirt like the white. Yours is pretty much the same as ours. The black does not show the "black streaks" like the white does.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:38 AM   #4
bncinwv
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Good deal, I rarely washed the white one, hopefully the painted one will be less!
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:40 AM   #5
Art-n-Marge
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hmmm, just wait a while when the roof ages, then the white streaks will show up plenty on a dark RV, I imagine. But if you can keep getting that rig cleaned with 4 guys for $70 in about an hour, then you'll keep this problem taken care of, too. That, is an outstanding price. Did you have to go somewhere or did they come to you?

I've heard "Blue Beacon"s are a great affordable place to take your RV for a good exterior washing, but there are none close to me, so I haven't tried and when I've seen one off the road I didn't have the time.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #6
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Nice! $70 is a bargain. We usually stop at Blue Beacon and get the works (power wash, soft brush wash, engine clean, roof wash, spray wax and rinse) for $95.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #7
bncinwv
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Art,
The streaks from the white roof on our previous models were always black. I sure hope they do not magically turn white just because I have a dark rig now!!
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #8
Ramblin Roadrunners
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Rich, I have been following you on your Big Sky problems for a while. I met you at the Rally. I have a high opinion of you and value your opinion and expertise. Having said all of these nice things abut you I would like to pose this question. How many of the problems with the new Big Sky are about features and products that were not offered on your 06? Are some of these problems because these RV's are more advanced than your 06? Are they plagued by the products purchased and installed by Keystone that maybe a better product isn't available? I would think Keystone is having to learn about the failure rate of some of the improvements only after they fail. The auto buisness gets a model close and works out the bugs as they gain expierence from failure. I was just thinking out loud. I feel you have been very fair with your opinions. Iam asking this because you said maybe you would be better off if you still had your 06.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #9
washley1
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Dang! That price is awesome. I assume the guys are in the Orlando area. Might almost be worth hauling it over from Tampa.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:01 AM   #10
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We are at Ocean Lakes Travel Park and will have the rig totally detailed tomorrow, to include waxing and buffing. Will be interesting to see how many of the peeling decals on the front and left side survive. It really needs it!
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:38 AM   #11
richfaa
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These guys come to your site. They have a van with all the cleaning stuff in it and they do about all the nearby Campgrounds. It is a family operation they are very professional and do a very good job. Even did the tires and the chrome wheels.
They will do a hand wax job for another 70.00.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:38 AM   #12
Tom S.
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The RV place that's about 1.5 miles from my house advertises they charge only $10 a foot! And that is wash only, no wax. There's no way in the world I'm paying someone $385 to wash my trailer!
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:09 PM   #13
richfaa
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quote:Originally posted by Ramblin Roadrunners

Rich, I have been following you on your Big Sky problems for a while. I met you at the Rally. I have a high opinion of you and value your opinion and expertise. Having said all of these nice things abut you I would like to pose this question. How many of the problems with the new Big Sky are about features and products that were not offered on your 06? Are some of these problems because these RV's are more advanced than your 06? Are they plagued by the products purchased and installed by Keystone that maybe a better product isn't available? I would think Keystone is having to learn about the failure rate of some of the improvements only after they fail. The auto buisness gets a model close and works out the bugs as they gain expierence from failure. I was just thinking out loud. I feel you have been very fair with your opinions. Iam asking this because you said maybe you would be better off if you still had your 06.
Will try to answer. Our 06 3400 was ,IMO,at about the end of its useful life for long timing. We had traveled over 70K miles in nearly 7 years. It suffered frame flex twice due in part to our excellent highway system. It will serve the new owners well as a weekend camper and it served us well for the time we used it.

This 13 Big Sky has many of the same issues as the 06 3400.Build Quality, again, IMO , has not improved much. We have toured I think all of the plants in the Elkhart area. Purchase any brand and you will get no better build quality. I have said many times before. If I thought there was a better quality unit in the Montana price range I would have it.

Keystone uses the same vendors as the other brands. Look at a Jayco, Cedar Creek, Redwood and you will see the same vendor provided products.

There is absolutely no comparison between the auto industry and the RV industry in any category. If you were at the rally you saw the assembly line and the build process. It is primitive compared to the auto industry and every brand assembly line is the same.

What bothers me the most is that this 2013 Big Sky does have the same build quality issues that the 2006 3400 had. I had hoped for better.

They are "build quality issues. Defective valve stems. Wall panels pulling away from the wall, Cable and satellite connections installed backwards in the convenience center. Pantry door not closing properly. Compartment door struts pulling out of the door. Flush lever falling off the john. Nor cold fridge failing in 7 months.
Poor build quality, vendor, Keystone same in any brand.

This big Sky is a far better Rv , better technology, Level up system, G614 tires. Full body paint.

You are going to buy the same problems in any comparable brand. IMO Keystone stands behind the product better than any comparable brand although some here will not agree.


We talk about our issues no matter how small and hope they will help others.

It may not seem to some but we are happy Montana Owners.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #14
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Rich, very well stated. I agree. I don't think other RV's are any better. I do think most manufactures use us as test dummies to figure out their fail rate. I am glad you are still convinced Keystone is the best of the bunch. I thought the assembly plant was crowded and a little crude. Yes I do see the pride of the owners. By volume Montana's are not Keystone's biggest seller. I know the workmanship is only as good as the weakest employee. This is something I am challenged with in the shop I manage. The failure rates of new parts is causing lots of unhappy customers. They want the best prices. Along with best prices comes the "best" cheapest parts we can find. They fail at a higher rate. Once again I hope you didn't think you were being attacked or singled out. I saw your RV. It is something to be proud of.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:00 AM   #15
richfaa
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keystone does listen and make changes on MOC input. Mike Mack spent a lot of time at the rally collecting input from the group. Take note you will see some of the things talked about in Montana's down the line.

Just my opinion but I think many RV buyers expect the same level of quality and durability as their truck and come into ownership with high expectations. Again IMO some home work on Rv's such as looking at the RV forums might have helped in setting the proper expectations.

Helen and I worked for several Rv dealers at large RV shows selling Rv,s. We joined several Rv forums before purchase of a 5th wheel, We lived close enough to tour most of the RV factories. We understood what we would be getting and there were disappointments but no surprises.

I have said that if they built a 5th wheel to my spec's it would weigh about 32K and cost about 250K.
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:57 AM   #16
Emmel
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Rich, I'll be contacting you when we get there after Christmas. I usually wash it myself, but got an email today saying Jim Painter fell off his ladder while washing and broke his elbow. Makes me a little skittish thinking about the fall now!
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Old 11-09-2013, 02:59 AM   #17
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Good thought Steve E. Ladders and "older" men don't really get along even though our minds ignore the warnings. Be safe.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:56 AM   #18
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quote:Originally posted by mail2us

Good thought Steve E. Ladders and "older" men don't really get along even though our minds ignore the warnings. Be safe.
Ladders aren't the problem. Gravity is the problem!
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:54 AM   #19
richfaa
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Same here Steve. We do not get on any roof any more or ladders. BTW the cost was 75.00 for the wash and another 70.00 for a hand wax. I got the numbers turned around. Still a bargain for 75.00. The mind is willing but the old bones get brittle.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #20
Tom S.
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Same here Steve. We do not get on any roof any more or ladders. BTW the cost was 75.00 for the wash and another 70.00 for a hand wax. I got the numbers turned around. Still a bargain for 75.00. The mind is willing but the old bones get brittle.
That's a heck of a deal!
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