Towing with furnace running?

[dsprik]

Anyone find anything in any manuals about the furnace operating while in motion?

[ols1932]

We keep seeing people pull into service areas with propane on, furnace running, and I assume refrigerator on propane also. Though the rigs are not next to the pumps, there are gas fumes (and I assume, vapors) in the air. It is gas vapors that will ignite if close to open flame. I think I've said enough here to cause us all to take proper precautions when fueling.

Orv

[bsmeaton]

I agree with Orv.

It just takes a moment to switch that stuff off (fridge, furnace, HW heater). Not like the old days when you had to re-light the pilot lights on each one.

Safety or Money or Both, pick your own incentive. If the odds are against you and something happens, it doesn't take a lot of investigation to figure out you were the cause. Beyond the risk of killing people or scarring them for life, you also stand to be financially responsible for all the damage. The posted sign gets the insurance company off the hook.

PS - just shutting off the propane isn't enough. That refrig will run for up to 15 minutes on residual pressure in the lines. It's faster and easier just to shut the switches off and leave the tanks open.

[sreigle]

Dsprik, I do not recall anything about the furnace running on the road in any of the manuals. I really doubt Keystone wants to put such a statement in there. If they did, they'd have to say to not do it. After all, with that flame back there and/or the igniter lighting off, there is always the potential for ignition of gasoline fumes or some other kind of problem. I cannot think they would open themselves to that kind of liability lawsuit. Thus they'd have to say don't do it. At least that's how I see it.

[dsprik]

Thanks, Steve. I was just curious if Keystone had made any statement on operation while in motion - either "OK" or "DON'T DO IT". They are not in the dark as to the fact that this is done.

It may be possible that this is one of the RV industry's "don't ask - don't tell" approaches. Although, I am a little surprised that there is no warning because if there were any concerns at all, it would be simple to just give a "Do not operate while in motion" statement in the manual and a small tag/sticker near the thermostat. This would make all the attorneys happy, and give protection to the mfr.

I have never done this as I have never towed in that cold of weather. It would probably make me a little nervous. I have, however, driven and fueled with my fridge running on gas.

[bncinwv]

Please don't take this as being argumentative, but what is the difference in a 5er and a motorhome?? I have never owned the latter, but surely they travel with fridges and heaters on don't they. Or are they inverter driven in a motorhome?? Just curious as I have no knowledge whatsoever how the latter functions. Can someone shed light on this for my personal knowledge?? Safety is always a primary concern, but at times there are realistic needs that I personally feel can be safely addressed much as what Orv was alluding to. As always all statments are my opinion only and can be taken with a grain of salt.
Bingo

[ols1932]

The have the identical safety concerns that we do. If they drive with the propane on (which is not illegal), then they should take the safety precautions of turning off the refrigerator and/or furnace if on when refueling.

Orv

[bsmeaton]

Bingo,

From my MH experience, the refrigerator was actually a 3-way and ran on 12V. The priority was 110VAC, 12VDC, LP. When it was really cold, I ran the furnace while moving, however it also had the standard cab hot water heat from the engine that usually sufficed.

My MH had the nasty little pilot lights so it was quite a chore getting everything to restart after refueling.

I'm kind of having a hard time figuring out what makes the furnace running in a towed trailer any more dangerous than sleeping on top of it through the night. Beyond fueling, I'm not seeing any issues with leaving it running providing the outside airflow does not interfere with the combustion chamber and blow out the burner.

[Waynem]

Just for giggles I did a search on Google for "Driving with propane on."

One result:

Propane on or off

Edited:
Also try this search:

propane+"while driving"

[dsprik]

So this insurance company is also copping out of solid "NO, DON'T DO IT!" I guess if I was an insurance agent, my position would be clear - turn it off while in motion. But I'm not an insurance guy - or a lawyer...

One question... if the tanks are open, how effective is that auto shutoff in an accident, relative to a closed valve (I understand that there is no guaranteed that a closed tank wouldn't rupture either)?

I will turn off my tanks from now on - the food will keep (is that right?) and it's no big deal. I don't ever have the hot water heater (or furnace) running during travel, anyway - just the fridge.

[bsmeaton]

Actually the Aon article was not written by the insurance company, rather the original article is by Mac the Fire Guy www.macthefireguy.com and was purchased by Aon. You will see it echoed many times on the web through all types of users. Although Mac is well educated and experienced, the data in this article seems dated and lacking of the current safety features and technical upgrades such as the tank and hose safety valves (OPD).

This article seems to be more up to date and discusses the new technology associated with safety: http://www.rvtowingtips.com/propane.htm

As referenced in the previous article - this one provides technical details of why it is safer today than it used to be, with Marshall Gas providing the technical content (manufacturers of the Montana LP parts) - http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore...like/id44.html

This author doesn't have any more credentials than the full timers on this forum, but here is his perspective:
http://rvbasics.com/techtips/rv-refr...traveling.html

And yet another roadies perspective - http://home.earthlink.net/~derekgore...like/id47.html

[daneboy]

Brad,
Thanks for the good information. There is no shortage of opinions, much like what brand of truck to purchase. I have always traveled with the refrigerator running on gas. I don't shut it of at truck stops because diesel is much more difficult to ignite. Many homes have a water heater running in the garage on natural gas. Building codes (not all states) require the water heater to be off the garage floor 18" to prevent igniting gasoline fumes if there is a leak. I went on a call where a man was working in the garage, pulled the fuel line loose from under a VW van, next to the water heater. The gas ran down his arm and shoulder and ignited. The young man survived but it was really ugly. I agree, it not a good idea to have any pilots or ignitors running in a service station.
Jerry

[dsprik]

It's a good article, because it just gets you to think. Brad, I like your post.

[Waynem]

One thing that is pointed out is that many states have laws against running with propane turned on, and tunnels and bridges are marked indicating that law. Way back when (I was younger) I remember tunnels that had pull-over spots that were one of two things. A check by an official to see that your propane was off. Typically just an ask question type of check. And, just a spot for you to pull off and turn the propane off. I wish I could remember where that was - thought it was a good idea at the time as there was a lot of water above the ceiling of that tunnel.

Thanks Brad for the links. I just did not want to take the time last evening to research more. Now I can sit back and just read the links.

Edited: Opinions are like TV rear ends. Every one has one. Darn - even me.

[Waynem]

As an afterthought, with all of this high technology and the propensity of RV'ers to leave the propane on, it boils down to taking the time to pull over, get out of the TV, open up the 5er, turn off the refrigerator, back in the TV, pull up to the pump, fill up, pull away from the pump, back in the RV, turn on the fridge, etc.

Most people are just NOT going to do this as it is considere an inconvenience.

OK you electrical engineers! Build me a remote to switch from propane on to an off status for my refrigerator. I'll buy one if the price is "reasonable." Maybe the manufacturers could supply one with future sales. I, like many others, will gladly push a button from the drivers seat of the TV when pulling into a fuel stop, or travelling on restricted roads.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Brad,

Interesting articles.

OKKK, you know the disclaimers, Carol is still on the first cup of coffee, sooooo, can someone answer or comment on the article that said, Motorhomes frequently run with their generators running so they can use the 12 volt systems to run frig, etc. Now, what are these generators running on?? Propane or gasoline?? If, propane,is that not the same as running the frig or furnace?? It is after all propane.

OKKK, I know I am missing something BIG here, so, gently, please, explain this to me.

Or, did I simply read it wrong???

[bsmeaton]

Thanks folks,
These kind of point out several perspectives.

Carol,
The MH generator could be gasoline, diesel, even LP, but there would be no open flame like there is in a heating appliance or refrigerator. The generator would be as safe as the MH engine regardless of the fuel. To get an idea of the potential open flame you might expose yourself to at a gas station by leaving the appliances on, pop off that hot water tank cover while it is running sometime - Wowzers - those babies are flame throwers.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Thanks Brad, I knew there was SOMETHING I was missing!

[sreigle]

I heard there is one state, maybe Oregon or Washington?, that requires propane be turned off but we never saw a sign to that effect anywhere. And we've never seen that in any other state, either. The map below gives you an idea which we've been in.

So far we've only found one or two tunnels that require propane be turned off. Those are tunnels that go under water. The reason is those have their low point in the middle of the tunnel, where propane will gather and be a hazard. Those tunnels on land have their high points in the middle and leaking propane flows out the ends. No problem. Even the very long Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in Colorado does not require propane to be turned off. That long Chesapeake Bay Tunnel/Bridge from Norfolk to the eastern peninsula of Virginia does require propane be turned off. We just pulled over before entering and shut off the propane, then stopped on the other side and turned it on again.

[Clyde n Deb]

Methinks a chrome plated louvered tailgate with the louvers properly oriented would eliminate any potential of gas buildup?

You may refer to: http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...9&whichpage=22