Terrorism

[scattershot]

Politically correct bedwetters have ruined this country, for sure. I only hope sanity is restored in my lifetime.

[NRA-Girl]

quote:Originally posted by scattershot

Politically correct bedwetters have ruined this country, for sure. I only hope sanity is restored in my lifetime.

What is a "politically correct bedwetterr"?

If you could explain that to me I'd know who it is I should be hating.

AND

Is this a forum to learn and share about our Montanas, or a Testosterone fueled Donald Trump discussion group?

[jswharton]

Interesting conversation. Below is a link for the stats of mass murders this year. They range from 462 to 37 depending upon the definition of mass murder. So far in 2015 some 93,367 people (religious affiliation unknown) have died from alcohol, 32,567 from drunk driving, and 23,347 from all drug abuse. Draw your own conclusions but it sure seems to me that the $'s spent to correct/defend against these deaths are disproportionately distributed. So take away everyone's Booz and give them a joint, and pass a US birthright, every child born is given a 9mm, no training required.


http://cdn.thinglink.me/api/image/730120033908293632/1024/10/scaletowidth#tl-730120033908293632;1043138249'

[Bigboomer]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The meaning of the 2nd amendment and the "Militia" is a very complex issue. It is of interest to do some homework on the subject. It is not as clear and concise as we think. Example and there are many........ "http://www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html

Rich,

Please. I suggest you read the Federalist Papers where Madison, Hamilton and Jay outline exactly what the 2nd Amendment is and why it was out in place.....not complex at all.

The 2A was specifically put into place in order to ensure the "People" would be able to protect themselves from tyrannical government, something they could not do when they lived in England.

If you reference Federalist No. 28, 29 and 46, they outline it pretty good.

As for NRA-girls comment about learning about our Montana's this is why we this part of the forum for everything other than talking about rigs...

[Dam Worker]

Kind of a rambling post but it is hard to try and define this big of a mess with just a quick sentence.

Sad to think that this great nation is plagued with problems that the media spins into weeks long never ending news. I think the so called mass shooters seems to have also exploded under the current presidents terms. I am not sure why but it seems that the country is in a social unrest period and I might blame the lack of leadership from the top down. I am sorry for the victims in California but glad to see it was an actual terrorist instead of another mentally ill person. I also think terrorists have mental issues. Unstable people should not have access to guns, but how do you do this without affecting the millions of regular joes. Unfortunately these terrorists were able to get the weapons they used in one of the states with the most stringent gun laws.

I am not for more gun control laws or the removal of guns from law abiding citizens. Those citizens don't seem to be the ones causing all the problems. I am also smart enough to know that if you take law abiding folks guns because of new laws then we will be unable to at least attempt to protect ourselves. I would rather die attempting to protect myself than to be slaughtered while wait for the police to show up. I guarantee the criminals are not suddenly going to start following the laws. I would like to hope things get better but I think there are to many groups with agenda's that will prevent that from ever happening. I also know that no gun has ever just jumped up and killed somebody, there has always been somebody there to actually aim and fire the weapon. Maybe if the country still raised children to be responsible and held accountable for their actions we could move back into a better country. People who do not have these requirements especially children are probably more likely to not have to much regard for other peoples property or lives. Terrorists can recruit these people easier than those that have ethics and respect others.

I am now off the soapbox.

Tom Marty

[Ozz]

This has been a great discussion, and it's nice for all our members to talk about it with civility, just shows what a super group we have and the respect we have for each other. I'm sure there are many members that have had to hold back and they deserve our respect as well. A passionate outpouring about a real threat in society today.
Prod to be a MOC member.
Be aware, be careful out there

[Rain Ducker]

Your MOC Administrators could not agree more. We appreciate that this discussion was handled politely by all members. Thank you.

[mlh]

Now that we are all on the same page does anybody have any idea what might help?
Our governor has and all guns in state office buildings. I don't think that will help. Anyone who would kill people in an office isn't going to stop and read the sign turn around and forget about it. So what will help???
Lynwood

[richfaa]

We are 100% against "gun control" Can anyone list what Gun Control legislation has been introduced into Congress as a bill for consideration since 2008. List all Gun Control that has been passed by Congress and signed into law since 2008. List all Gun Control "executive orders" that have been signed into law since 2008.

[richfaa]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigboomer

Originally posted by richfaa

The meaning of the 2nd amendment and the "Militia" is a very complex issue. It is of interest to do some homework on the subject. It is not as clear and concise as we think. Example and there are many........ "http://www.barefootsworld.net/article2.html

Rich,

Please. I suggest you read the Federalist Papers where Madison, Hamilton and Jay outline exactly what the 2nd Amendment is and why it was out in place.....not complex at all.

The 2A was specifically put into place in order to ensure the "People" would be able to protect themselves from tyrannical government, something they could not do when they lived in England.

If you reference Federalist No. 28, 29 and 46, they outline it pretty good.

As for NRA-girls comment about learning about our Montana's this is why we this part of the forum for everything other than talking about rigs...


I think those papers were included in my reference and like I said it is a Complex issue. How about those age limits set.

[DQDick]

It's always interested me that the one place that always prohibits me to enter with my gun (banks) is also the only one frequently robbed with threatening notes. Anyone else see something here?

[mlh]

If gun control won't work and I agree it won't, can't work what will? I work in the firearms industry so I have heard it all and have never heard of a single thing that I thought would even help. In our paper in a letter to the editor someone said we haft to get rid of expanding bullets. What good would that do? Nothing except to let a lot of game run off to die a slow death. It would be easy enough to make hollow point bullets out of solids and I have bullet making dies. I'll just make my own jacketed bullets. And the list goes on and on.
Lynwood

[DarMar]

As a Canadian I find it REALLY hard to wrap my head around some of the things brought up in this discussion. We do have guns but they certainly aren't a part of our everyday lives and myself I really know very little about one.

I can understand protecting your family and yourself and actually have felt comfortable in US campgrounds parked next to Americans that we have got to know that have a gun on board, knowing that they would probably come to our aide as good citizens if something was to start up at our site.

I do question why the country can't move on assault rifles and perhaps some of the automatic types. If I would be carrying a handgun I would consider myself no match for a terrorist with an assault rife.

Just a little puzzled about all of this sitting up here in the great white north. On this topic our countries seem to be so totally different?

[richfaa]

I do have a CCP.I do have a semi automatic handgun. I do not have armor piercing ammo.I do not have body armor I would be outclassed to face a terrorist with a semi automatic long gun with a large capacity magazine and wearing body armor. We do understand that the so called assault style weapon is just about any semi automatic long gun with assault style stock manufactured for the sole purpose of selling more firearms. My 30 cal military carbine purchased from the US Government via the NRA DCM program is now classified as " an Assault weapon with a clip of more than 15 rounds but just a normal semi automatic weapon with a clip of less than 15 rounds.

BTW automatic weapon are not legal except with special permit and they are hard to get however it is not hard to "Modify" any semi auto weapon to fire full auto.

It is not easy to carry a semi automatic long gun on your person or in the truck or car.

This is not a easy issue to find a solution for

[levi]

I wonder if every conversation that began addressing terrorism drifts toward guns and gun ownership. Too simply stated, the TOOL OF CHOICE for the death and destruction of developed Christian societies is the handgun, or long gun. Another tool is bombs and bombing, still another is some sort of bladed instrument (knife). If it were possible to keep guns away from terrorists, would it stop terrorism? They could pollute water sources, poison foods, disseminate toxic gasses throughout the air conditioning systems in office buildings, and so on. At the same time that a national discussion regarding gun control is held, authorities ought to be holding local, grass roots thinktanks (including those in the rv community) talking about ways to re-establish generally held moral absolutes and basic ethical values within our culture and country. The way in which we process thought has something to do with what the individual holds to be basic and fundamental value system. Our culture must establish what kinds of societal behaviors are right and wrong, and such subjective individualism must be viewed in the light of the whole of community!

In any case, thank God for the rights and privileges we enjoy here in the west! And, thank God for our veterans, many who suffered and died, for these liberties we enjoy.

[Irlpguy]

As an outside observer who has spent a lot of time in the US I must say I am concerned by the suggestions of some who have commented on this thread. On the other hand there are some of my American friends who give me hope with their comments that cooler heads will prevail. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not criticizing anyone.

The act of Terrorism perpetrated by those who somehow become radicalized or by “home grown” fanatics is despicable. The killing of innocent men, women and children sickens us and we struggle to understand why this happens, we cannot comprehend what their reasons are and we may never understand. The act of terrorism does more than kill, it causes us to hate, distrust one another and causes us to act in a manner in which we would otherwise not act.

I certainly do not believe that arming every man, woman and child in America will prevent terrorism, having university students carrying handguns to school will not prevent it and I would seriously question the sanity of a person in this position making such a statement and personally feel his/her suggestion is not only radical but absolutely crazy.

If you are unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and are blown up by a suicide bomber, or by someone who has planted explosives intended to kill and maim many people, it will matter naught that you are carrying a handgun, it will matter naught that you have fired many rounds of ammo in training, you will be dead…period.

I have never been afraid to go to the theatre, shopping malls or pretty much anywhere when visiting the US or at home, I would be much more concerned with the thought that half the people in a movie theater were carrying a handgun, than being involved in a terror attack. The likelihood of a situation where someone irritates another by his/her actions and both are hot headed and packing a handgun and my getting shot as an innocent bystander by those folks or someone also carrying and intervening, scares me far more than the threat of a terrorist attack on a day to day basis, however am I going to prevent this from happening by also carrying a handgun, I think not.

I own several rifles, shotguns and a handgun and have for many years, I have hunted and shot targets all my life, my ownership of these weapons was and still is, for those purposes and none were ever purchased out of fear for myself, or my family. However would I use them for protection, you bet I would.

I cannot offer a solution to what is happening around the world, however if somehow we can come to some understanding as to why and how these folks think and act we might be able to “attack” the problem. Just my thoughts sitting up here in the cold north.

[levi]

Irlpguy, thank you. I have spent time living in Québec (under the leadership of Renée Levesque, no less) and in New Brunswick, Canada. Canadians sore good friends, and good people. Dialogue with such good friends with another perspective may encourage and help. By the way, that's a nice looking tow vehicle.

[bigskyjimmy]

As a former Knife Company owner that has been to MANY local Gun and Knife shows one thing that always scared me is seeing a booth next to me sell AR's and AK's etc.. to any Tom, Dick and Harry that walks up and buys one without a background check,I am not anti-Gun at all but I do not know why the NRA can't give a little on this issue and I know this will not stop all the bad guys from getting them But Come On Man!

[mlh]

I assume you mean AR15s when you say assault rifles. We know a lot of people who own them. The vast vast majority of people who them will never use them for any unlawful purpose. You can buy them for as little as $400 or as much as $4000. You can buy new barrels for $400 and then have them installed for another $250 new lower and upper receivers new triggers $1000+ scopes custom triggers and and custom parts. You can get them in the standard 223 caliber, 6MM and all the way up to a very small 45 caliber and, I think a 50 caliber called a whisper. These custom ARs will shoot groups under 1/2 inch at 100 yards and sometimes under 1/4 inch. These rifles become the same thing your Montana is to you a hobby. Nobody needs an AR but not many of us need a camper.
Incase you are wondering, NO I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me, they don't shoot good enough.
Lynwood

[Irlpguy]

Thanks levi, I am very happy with my tow vehicle although I have been a Ford man most of my life, hard to go wrong with any of the Big three today.

Having lived in Quebec with Renee Levesque as leader you will be well aware that had he gotten his way along with many other separatists, Quebec would no longer be a part of Canada and our nation would be divided, today I think there is very little possibility of that ever happening, thankfully.

With all the commonalities of our nations and peoples we do differ in perspective on some issues, this does not mean one is right and the other is wrong, just simply different perspectives and laws.

Comparatively Canada has so far suffered little from terrorist activity, that does not mean it cannot or will not happen or that attempts have not already been made, they have and we must be ever vigilant and aware.

There is lots of controversy here in Canada with respect to allowing thousands of refugees into our country from a part of the world torn apart by terrorists of one ilk or another, what I try to remember is we were all immigrants with the exception of First Nations Peoples and we have always opened our doors and welcomed as many refugees as possible. I hope we can continue to do that and still maintain the secure integrity of our countries.

Division and infighting is as destructive as the killing of our citizens, the terrorists know this, so it must be with caution and mutual agreement that we enact laws, we must share information and intelligence to conquer this scourge that is upon us. Think carefully for what you ask, it may in the end not be what you want.