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Old 02-13-2008, 03:38 AM   #1
SlickWillie
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3/4 vs. 1 ton suspension

OK guys (and gals), let's don't get hostile, but I found this subject interesting. From the little research I've done, I believe the GMC 2500 and 3500 suspension is very near the same. Perhaps just a difference in springs and tires. I still have more research I want to do, including a call to my GMC parts man back home. Opinions? Facts? I think I am well within my vehicle weight limits, but I am just curious.
 
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:43 AM   #2
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Ouch! are you certain you want to start this? I got hammered when I did.
I will be here for you, bud.
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:44 AM   #3
richfaa
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I did the numbers on that in another thread.. The 2500 GVWR was 9200lbs and the 3500 Single wheel was 9900lbs 700lbs difference. The 3500 Dually was 11,400. You can find this on the GM site..build your own truck.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:01 AM   #4
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..and let the battle begin.......

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Old 02-13-2008, 04:58 AM   #5
richfaa
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There should not be a battle(but there will be) the numbers are there from the manufacturer.Of course there is also the arguement that they mean nothing.. are not legal requirements are just advisory in nature, etc.. I will not get into this one.
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:39 AM   #6
bsmeaton
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Slick - you're crazy! hahahahah - hang on!

When I open the door on my truck, its says GAWR - REAR 7,000 LBS.

Your's doesn't say that.

You are not an automotive engineer, therefore nothing you add will make yours say 7,000 LBS. Aftermarketers are not automotive engineers, therefore nothing they manufacture or sell you will make yours say 7,000 LBS. If you cause loss-injury-death knowingly exceeding payload, you are NEGLIGENT.

I know it's not the sticker carrying the load, but unless you pull a document from the manufacturer that provides you with authorized direction on how to modify that truck to meet the higher rating, you are practicing wizardry and are fooling yourself.

Again - I personally don't care what you do, just be considerate of what you tell others. By the way, I don't know anything about Mountaineers, so I would never guess your numbers, but I suspect you are within your limits.

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Old 02-13-2008, 05:39 AM   #7
8.1al
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A dually has 2 more tires, this could be the difference, however the 1 ton could have bigger brakes, but then we're just talking suspension aren't we?
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:40 AM   #8
SlickWillie
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I'm not looking to argue. I don't know that I ever want to change springs even if that would do it. My truck handles the Mountaineer well as it is. Rich, I saw that post on the other thread, but wanted to start this thread to discuss this on. I'm not particularly interested in the manufacturers ratings. I just wanted to see if we could figure out what the differences are in the suspensions of the two. I've been around a lot of material handling equipment in my years at the power plant, and most has a lot more capacity than it is rated at. Liability I would suppose. Seems that IIRC, most equipment was actually rated around 60% of it's actual capacity. Do the truck manufacturers do this?

I've looked at part numbers, and the rear axles seem to be the same on the GM products (If I am reading things right). Like I said before, I have lots more research to do.
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:59 AM   #9
BB_TX
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I did the numbers on that in another thread.. The 2500 GVWR was 9200lbs and the 3500 Single wheel was 9900lbs 700lbs difference. The 3500 Dually was 11,400. You can find this on the GM site..build your own truck.
I would guess the difference between the 2500 and the 3500 SRW is a heavier spring or extra leaf in the spring. And the difference between the 3500 SRW and DRW is simply the extra tires. True?
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:24 AM   #10
HughM
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BB TX Thanks for staying on topic. The original post was what was the difference in 2500 and 3500 suspension and not what was the weight numbers.
I would believe that the only difference in suspension is an extra leaf in the spring and extra carrying weight is attributed to the two extra tires.
I'll be at a Chev. dealer tomorrow and I'll look at the springs in a 3500 and compare them to my 2500.
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:42 AM   #11
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Slick - you're crazy! hahahahah - hang on!

When I open the door on my truck, its says GAWR - REAR 7,000 LBS.

Your's doesn't say that.

You are not an automotive engineer, therefore nothing you add will make yours say 7,000 LBS. Aftermarketers are not automotive engineers, therefore nothing they manufacture or sell you will make yours say 7,000 LBS. If you cause loss-injury-death knowingly exceeding payload, you are NEGLIGENT.

I know it's not the sticker carrying the load, but unless you pull a document from the manufacturer that provides you with authorized direction on how to modify that truck to meet the higher rating, you are practicing wizardry and are fooling yourself.

Again - I personally don't care what you do, just be considerate of what you tell others. By the way, I don't know anything about Mountaineers, so I would never guess your numbers, but I suspect you are within your limits.

Brad, I've got one of those permanent markers though! (JK) I wouldn't encourage anyone to change anything, but we know there are those that pull way more than the truck is rated at. If they're going to do so, hadn't we rather see them upgrade tires, axles, springs or anything that might make them safer?

Not sure about the laws in other states, but here in TX I wouldn't worry about the weight rating. I've been through the legal process here, and there ain't a hell of a lot you can do if someone has insurance. Then, if they don't have insurance, they probably don't have any assets you can touch. (Disclaimer)-Again, that is me not worrying; I'm not telling anyone else what to do.

BTW, HughM, I really think you may be right. I noticed by going to LT265-75R-16 Michelin LTX M/S over the 245's you could increase load capacity by almost 1500 lbs. Thats 4 tires. The dually tire ratings are slightly lower, but of course there are two more to share the load.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:09 AM   #12
HughM
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SlickWillie, thats what I did. When I bought my truck a few months ago I swapped the 16" rims and got 17" rims from the dealer. I then bought new tires and went up a size to 265.
I increased load capacity for the tires from 16" to 17" and then from 245 to 265 tires.
I don't consider it additional load capacity I just think safety first and I know that my tires will carry what I need to load up to and including max. wt.
I never worry about tires when I travel. I just ck the pressure and go.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:53 AM   #13
bsmeaton
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Not sure about the laws in other states, but here in TX I wouldn't worry about the weight rating. I've been through the legal process here, and there ain't a hell of a lot you can do if someone has insurance. Then, if they don't have insurance, they probably don't have any assets you can touch. (Disclaimer)-Again, that is me not worrying; I'm not telling anyone else what to do.
Your right - If they didn't have enough money to bring the right truck to the party, they probably just wrecked thier only asset anyway.

I didn't mean to get off topic. I confused 3/4 and 1 ton with weights (silly me). I also didn't realize you guys were opening up a high tech research project. After you get done crawling around under the trucks at the Dealer using calibrated eyeballs, just remember your results may comfort yourself, but should not be implied as fact to others, as there is no qualified basis for your conclusions using your type of research skills . BTW, did you guys now that Ford went to a single front leaf that carries the same load as the prior 4-leaf spring? And did you know some are also made with fiberglass that have a different tension factor than steel? - probably not.

Carry on - I'm bored already
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:13 AM   #14
SlickWillie
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Not sure about the laws in other states, but here in TX I wouldn't worry about the weight rating. I've been through the legal process here, and there ain't a hell of a lot you can do if someone has insurance. Then, if they don't have insurance, they probably don't have any assets you can touch. (Disclaimer)-Again, that is me not worrying; I'm not telling anyone else what to do.
Your right - If they didn't have enough money to bring the right truck to the party, they probably just wrecked thier only asset anyway.

I didn't mean to get off topic. I confused 3/4 and 1 ton with weights (silly me). I also didn't realize you guys were opening up a high tech research project. After you get done crawling around under the trucks at the Dealer using calibrated eyeballs, just remember your results may comfort yourself, but should not be implied as fact to others, as there is no qualified basis for your conclusions using your type of research skills . BTW, did you guys now that Ford went to a single front leaf that carries the same load as the prior 4-leaf spring? And did you know some are also made with fiberglass that have a different tension factor than steel? - probably not.

Carry on - I'm bored already
Interesting facts about the fiberglass. I could sure seeing it having a different tension factor. I haven't had a Ford in years, not that I am that brand loyal. My next truck could well be a Ford (not sure I want fiberglass springs though).

Fact is; part numbers don't lie, and don't require a lot of skill to research. If truck A and truck B have a part with the same part number, odds are that it will perform the same function on both vehicles.

As far as cost, I don't think the 1 ton is a whole lot more. I really have no need for the 1 ton at this time, but in the future I may make that move.

BTW Brad, apparently those fiberglass springs have been around for awhile. Seems they were used on Vettes at one time. The old Astro vans apparently had some type plastic springs in the rear. Live and learn huh? Thanks.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:36 AM   #15
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An extra spring to go from 2500 SRW to the same setup as a 3500 suspension is, to me, essentially the only observable difference. If you look closely the holes for the overload spring are there in the frame because the frames are identical. As far as load capacity, the capacity is based upon the least capable portion of the vehicle suspension including the wheels. Now I am no automotive engineer nor any type of expert so make your own determinations. For my part, after many weeks of research, talking to mechanics, consulting dealers and reading posts in multiple forums I chose to run the manufacturers numbers and give myself a bit of margin. I will not post my research but I chose to go with a 1 ton DRW to tow a 3585SA. If anyone takes the time to use a calculator they will note that comparing the DRW ratings for two tires per side to a 1 ton SRW with the same tires pretty much explains the change in cargo capacity. Note that it actually decreases the tow rating as it adds additional weight to the truck itself.

I have to say I am with bsmeaton on this one. Also, as I have said in other posts, besides civil liability there is a danger of criminal charges if a TV is found to be grossly over its specified weight ratings and this is seen by the investigating officer/prosecutor to have been a major contributing factor in a serious accident i.e. one that results in death or serious injury. I tried to locate some examples but they were all commercial vehicles.

Think things are bad now wait until GM comes out with the 4.5l diesel for 1500 series trucks.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/g...the-hummer-h2/

With over 300 HP and 500 F#'s of torque you can tow any Montanna with this engine. Problem is that a 1500 series truck is built lighter than the 2500/3500 trucks. Wanna bet some of these will soon be seen with extra springs, air bags etc and the owners will argue they are now "beefed up" to heavy duty, the manufacturers really have underrated them so they can still sell the HD's and, ... well you all can guess the other protestations we will see in the forums.

Now that we are nicely warmed up who makes the best trucks :-P
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:54 AM   #16
Clyde n Deb
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"I chose to go with a 1 ton DRW to tow a 3585SA."

But didya put a louvered tailgate on it?
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:00 AM   #17
Rondo
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OH NO--- NOT THE LOUVERED TAILGATE AGAIN! I'm not getting into either one of these discussions!!
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:39 AM   #18
MacDR50
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Had to once I installed the JATO engines :-O .
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:03 AM   #19
bigmurf
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The sideline seems to be the best place to be on this, or maybe sitting on the louvered tailgate (of a chipped up truck) drinking a cool one.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:20 PM   #20
rickety
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Me? I'm, just gonna sit here in my corner and suck on a brewski while ya'll fight it out. I'm with Ozz man, got black and blue the last fight.
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