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Old 08-18-2019, 01:37 AM   #1
brianm
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High Country 294RL Towing, Pin Weight, Etc

Hi Everyone,

Taking delivery of a new high country 294RL on Monday. Started reading some of these threads got me a bit worried, and looking for some validation I'll be ok towing, or if for example I might need better tires, and if so, recommendations.

Anyone have some insight?

GMC 2500HD 6.6L Diesel, 3.73 Axle:
GCWR: 25,300
Max Payload: 3,658
Curb Weight: 6,342
GVWR: 10,000
Rear Axle Capacity: 6,200

2020 Montana High Country 294RL:
Shipping Weight: 11,035
Carrying Capacity: 3,265
Hitch: 2,300

Thanks!

Brian
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:28 AM   #2
QKnot
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I have a 2020 330RL. The weights on mine and your pending unit are very similar. I'm within all my ratings, but I have a Ram 3500.

My thoughts:
I noticed you included things like Max Payload and Curb Weight. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you got those numbers off GM's website. You can find your as built payload on the yellow sticker on the driver's side door, but that won't account for things you load into it like your 5th wheel hitch, your family, dogs, etc. What you need to determine is your actual payload. My advice would be to load up your truck as if you were going camping and go get it weighed. Take that number minus the GVWR and that's the payload you have to carry the pin weight.

As far as your pin and trailer weights, you are using dry weights. A better method would be to take 20% of your trailer's GVW and use that as your pin weight. Your GVW is 14,260 which means 20% will be 2852 lbs. That's hopefully the max your pin will ever weigh. If you can subtract that from your actual payload and still have something left over, you should be good to go. It should in reality weigh less, but probably not that much less.

I think you'll be ok, but you'll have to run the numbers yourself once you get it. I would definitely get it weighed when you get it. Then you'll know exactly what you are dealing with.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:11 AM   #3
twindman
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My Mountaineer and Chevy are pretty much the same weights as your stuff. I am 3-400 overweight on truck and trailer is 500-1000 under it's load limit. I am thinking your truck dry weight may be for a gasser. It seems like my empty weight is close to 7000. 2 people, a 150 lb hitch, 250 lb of fuel and sundries pushes me to around 8000 without the trailer.
I have read numerous accounts and a mechanic just told me Friday that a 2500 and 3500 are the same except for a spring. My truck doesn't sag at all hitched up, so I am not too worried.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:27 AM   #4
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You stated your truck has 3658 of available payload, subtract weight of passengers (not the driver), subtract the weight of your hitch, subtract the weight of all the cargo you plan to carry in the truck, this will give you what is left for the trailer pin weight. You trailer published pin weight is 2300 but depending on how much you load your trailer you could add roughly 20% of the trailer cargo capacity which means 20% of 3265 lbs or upto 653 lbs added to your hitch. Thinking about adding other options onto your trailer? That weight will be included in your cargo number and will also add to your pin weight and the same time reducing what you can carry in the way of gear or food.

So let's look at a sample case

your stated truck payload 3265 lbs less
one passenger 150lbs (industry std for determining average weight)
hitch 150 lbs (some higher, some lower)
gear carried in the bed or cab of the truck 300 lbs
trailer empty pin weight 2300 lbs (as stated by you)
cargo carried in the trailer at 20% (2000 of gear for moderate RV use) = 400 lbs of pin weight carried by the truck.
TOTAL 150+150+300+2300+400=3300 lbs or 35 lbs over your stated truck payload.
If you use the RV for more like full timing or extended travel those numbers will get even worse. If you have other passengers, pets, heavier hitch, more gear in the truck bed it all adds up.

Others will tell you their 2500 tows just fine. But you are potentially over... by the numbers. Your call on whether you want to do something about it. I'd recommend a 3500 diesel at a minimum, JMHO. You might get away with a gas engine but you'll have lousy MPGs and a motor that will struggle with the weight but you save the money on the diesel upgrade. Again your call, I still recommend the diesel option.

One last thing, you will run out of truck payload 99% of the time before you run out of CGVWR.

On edit, the payload capacity seems suspect. The highest number I can find is 3158 lbs which puts you over even more than my preliminary "guess-timate" Even a 3500 SRW might be pushing the envelope (again by the numbers only)
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:40 PM   #5
TLightning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm View Post

GMC 2500HD 6.6L Diesel, 3.73 Axle:
GCWR: 25,300
Max Payload: 3,658
Curb Weight: 6,342
GVWR: 10,000
Rear Axle Capacity: 6,200
Those numbers sound like they are for a gasser. As previously mentioned, get the payload capacity off the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door post. Unless some huge changes have been made recently, no 250/2500 series diesel has a payload anywhere near 3,600#.
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Old 08-18-2019, 12:54 PM   #6
brianm
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Thanks guys for the responses, really appreciated. I did look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on my truck, and it says "combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 897kg or 1978lbs".

So am I correct that means the actual truck weight is 10,000 - 1978 = 8022?

And further that my pin weight should not exceed 1978?
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:37 PM   #7
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That number seems very low but if the weight of everything you carry in the truck should not exceed 1978 lbs then that is what the sticker says. That would include the trailer pin weight, the hitch in the truck bed, passengers, and all cargo not in the trailer. So yeah your truck is way over loaded just adding the empty trailer, let alone all the other stuff. Sounds like time to upgrade the tow vehicle.

The 10000 number is the gvwr of the truck. that would be the maximum weight the truck could weigh with everything loaded on it including the pin weight of the trailer. The curb weight of the base 2500HD with the diesel engine with fuel and the driver is estimated around 7350 lbs from my read. That would give a payload rating of 2650 lbs depending what options are on the truck.

A very lightly loaded trailer might get under that spec depending on how you load the trailer, it all depends on what you are planning on taking on your road trips, what trailer options you will add and what you carry in the truck. Remember you have to count everything, the hitch, gear in the truck, sewer hoses, water hoses, wheel chocks, food, toys, clothes, water, I mean everything. It adds up quickly.

My guess is you can't do it by the numbers but that never stopped a lot of people.

One option you could do is put all the 3500 rear suspension pieces on to strengthen the rear axle support but then you are still legally 2500 and if by chance you get tangled up with the law you could find yourself in some hot water, but I would rather see you get the right truck for the job first.

My choice is still a dually 3500.. strictly by the numbers, others will disagree. A fully load Rv fifth wheel trailer with a GVWR of around 14000 is at the top of the 3500 SRW envelope. a 14000k loaded flatbed trailer with a gooseneck would be at the top of a 2500HD envelope. that kind of trailer usually has a lower pin weight than a RV fiver. Two different animals, same weight but the 2500 truthfully can really only handle one of them and not the one you want it to. JHMO
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:35 PM   #8
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BiggarView, thx so much for all the info...I'm picking up the 294RL tomorrow, and trucking it home with me. My plan is to hit the scales near the dealership to see exactly what I'm dealing with. If I can get away with adding the 3500 springs to my 2500 then I will do it. I should have done better research ahead of time but here I am. Any towing I do will be within 100 miles of home. We'll see how she tows and go from there. If the springs dont do the trick then I guess I'm looking at a 3500 in my future.

I do really appreciate the input, thank you again.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:49 PM   #9
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Compare the price of springs to air bags, either one will accomplish the same thing. Air bags will give you more adjustability. Neither will make you "legal", but will help support the weight.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:29 AM   #10
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Congrats! Good luck sir and let us know how it goes.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:16 PM   #11
Sharmanclan
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Congrats on the new trailer.

We have a 2019 320RL and initially I pulled it with a 2016 Chevy 2500HD crew cab 4x4. Having read many comments in the forums I did my research and calculations and found that I was well over. Truck cargo capacity was 2240lbs and max capacity with a 5ver was 13,900. Our 320 has a gross weight of 14,200 so we ‘legally’ we’re over here but when adding my slider hitch, dogs, wife and some cargo plus the pin weight, I was already around 3,450 cargo. As such we changed up to a 2018 1 Ton with a 3860 cargo and 17,200 pull capability.

I now have peace of mind with respect to safety as well as if I am stopped.

With the weight you highlight that your truck’s cargo capacity has, you will likely be 1,200-1,600 pounds over weight I am afraid to say!
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:12 PM   #12
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That is pretty much why I traded ip to a 1 ton ram from my 3/4 ram and now I have a piece of mind.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:42 PM   #13
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I HAD a 370 BR with a PUBLISHED pw of 2100. Loaded it was over 2900. Scal d I was over the 2016 F350 I had at the time.
I finally gave up and bought a new heavier Montana and F350 dually this year.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:40 PM   #14
rsaylor3
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GM is finally getting away from the 10,000lb GVWR for it's new 2020 3/4 tons. So if you are worried about the stickers and staying under it, the 2020's will be out soon and either the 2500 or 3500 will have you under the numbers.

Myself, I believe the 2,500 and 3,500 are just an upper overload leaf different from one another. I hear this is mainly to keep people from paying higher registration and fees in certain states.

I just recently went form a 32' travel trailer to a 2020 High Country 331RL a few months back. I have towed it on four trips so far and absolutely love it! Hooked up my 2015 Silverado 2500hd 4x4 Duramax squats a bit as expected, but I am still level and not lower in the rear of the truck at all. With that said, I do use lower stableloads from Forklift. They actually sent me a set for free to try when I had a 1/2 ton Chevy. Never installed them until I got the 3/4 ton. I loved the added stability they offered when towing the travel trailer and again activated them with the new fifth wheel. It gives me a much more controlled feel! Wouldn't tow without them now.

My truck rides and feels great! I have not plans to upgrade anytime soon, though I am getting pretty excited about the new GM HD twins as I hear more about them!

Good luck and safe towing!
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