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Old 01-18-2018, 05:17 PM   #1
bshgto
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Disk Brakes...... WOW

Went out and bought a 3791 Rear Den a few weeks ago. What a beast. After a few trips and a few hundred miles I realized the front adjusting brakes just wasn`t going to stop this thing when the lovely young female that wants to get off at the next exit decides to come out of the fast lane into mine and slams on her brakes to make the exit ( this did happen, just inches to collision and she flipped me off when I laid on the horn ). With that in mind on our last trip I decided to not to put up with crappy brakes anymore. Called Etrailer and ordered an assembly of parts for $1534.00. Five days later they were on my door step, put them on in less than a day and thru the electric brakes in the shed. Went out for a test drive and all I can say is never again will I own a big camper without disk brakes. This behemoth stops on a dime now with out lock up it can stop pronto.
I`m ready for her now.
If you do any Mods this should be at the top of the list.
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Electric Brakes ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:50 PM   #2
coachgrowl
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how difficult?
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:05 PM   #3
bshgto
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just a thought

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Originally Posted by coachgrowl View Post
how difficult?
If you have never done a complete brake job on a car I`d skip it to a friend that has. It`s very simple, comes with instructions. Use the Hydrastar Hydralic Brake Actuator instead of the other brands, this particular brand spools up in a heart beat. If you have to pay for the install I would expect another $1500.00. You will not regret spending the money.
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2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake
Electric Brakes ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
2018 F350 Ford 6.7 Dually Top Dog
Andersen Ultimate on pucks, 5th Airborne Mor/Ryde SRE 4000.... smooth ride
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:19 PM   #4
coachgrowl
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I have done many brake jobs engine rebuilds etc so I will give it a try. Thanks. Why do the manufacturers still put the pos brakes on these trailers?
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:40 PM   #5
mhs4771
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Because electric brake magnets are CHEAP, need I say more.
I've been pushing Disc Brakes for years and 3 fifthwheels, just before Mor/ryde IS.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:24 PM   #6
shovelhead86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshgto View Post
Went out and bought a 3791 Rear Den a few weeks ago. What a beast. After a few trips and a few hundred miles I realized the front adjusting brakes just wasn`t going to stop this thing when the lovely young female that wants to get off at the next exit decides to come out of the fast lane into mine and slams on her brakes to make the exit ( this did happen, just inches to collision and she flipped me off when I laid on the horn ). With that in mind on our last trip I decided to not to put up with crappy brakes anymore. Called Etrailer and ordered an assembly of parts for $1534.00. Five days later they were on my door step, put them on in less than a day and thru the electric brakes in the shed. Went out for a test drive and all I can say is never again will I own a big camper without disk brakes. This behemoth stops on a dime now with out lock up it can stop pronto.
I`m ready for her now.
If you do any Mods this should be at the top of the list.
Where did you mount the Elect./hyd. actuator?
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #7
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I'll add my .02 worth and say that the discs on our 5er are the best $1500 investment I have ever done to any RV --- and for sure saved our bacon on a close call on I-81 near Hershey this past fall.

I agree with using the Carlisle Hydrastar actuator. It's all metal and is about as quick as possible coming on with the Ford IBC set on electric over hydraulic. Oh and if you forget to turn your brake controller setting down, the long set of black tire marks and blue cloud in your mirrors soon remind you
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave W View Post
I'll add my .02 worth and say that the discs on our 5er are the best $1500 investment I have ever done to any RV --- and for sure saved our bacon on a close call on I-81 near Hershey this past fall.

I agree with using the Carlisle Hydrastar actuator. It's all metal and is about as quick as possible coming on with the Ford IBC set on electric over hydraulic. Oh and if you forget to turn your brake controller setting down, the long set of black tire marks and blue cloud in your mirrors soon remind you
Which model of Hydrastar did you use. I did not find an application chart on their website.
Did you use 1000, 1200, 1600 psi?
The Hydrastar HBA-V or the Hydrastar XL?
And also where did you mount it?
Do the fluid lines come from Hydrastar or etrailer? Are they metal or the newer flexible lines?

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prndl View Post
Which model of Hydrastar did you use. I did not find an application chart on their website.
Did you use 1000, 1200, 1600 psi?
The Hydrastar HBA-V or the Hydrastar XL?
And also where did you mount it?
Do the fluid lines come from Hydrastar or etrailer? Are they metal or the newer flexible lines?

Thanks



I used their 1600 pound version as it is recommended for double axle, disc brakes. The 1000 pound is for drum brakes and the 1200, IIRC for single axle discs.

When you buy the actuator, that's all you get. You need to supply all the hydraulic lines. I used a 24" Kodiak line with a 90 degree fitting through the front compartment floor. I then tied in to a steel line made up from a Blue Dot kit. While many parts including the rotors and calipers and the single Kodiak line came from etrailer, the Hydrastar and BlueDot line kit came from Eastern Marine. Somewhere I have an entire list of parts but they are for a 6000 pound axle, If you have 7000 pound suspension, they are a bit different. Oh and the Kodiak 'rubber' line kit is often used but Hydrastar doesn't recommend it nor do I as there is way too much length in each individual line and eventually the flexibility may lead to some delayed braking ability.

After you spend some time considering this mod, you do need to sit down and make a list of what you need or let a good shop do the job. You need 4 calipers, 4 rotors, 4 new sets of wheel bearings and seals, a line kit, four 15 foot lengths of different colored 12AWG wire to wire the actuator and the actuator plus 2 quarts of DOT 3/4 brake fluid (you don't need this much if there are no leaks - I had a problem with my flaring tool)). I also added a new breakaway switch.

Not a really easy job if you don't have the tools, but with a few wrenches and a flaring too kit, it is doable for any average DIYer
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:40 PM   #10
cardinal96ss
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I assume you double-flared the lines. Correct?
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:47 PM   #11
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When I did the conversion on our 2012 I used the Kodiak flexible line kit and it worked great. Easy install and noticed NO DELAY. Will convert on the 2018 this Spring. I recommend replacing bearings with Made-in-USA Timkens.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cardinal96ss View Post
I assume you double-flared the lines. Correct?

Yes. standard 45 degree. Single flare only works with 37 degree AN fittings which would have been extremely costly for this kind of project though I have both tooling but not the AN fittings
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:33 PM   #13
bshgto
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just a thought

Which model of Hydrastar did you use. I did not find an application chart on their website.
Did you use 1000, 1200, 1600 psi?
The Hydrastar HBA-V or the Hydrastar XL?
And also where did you mount it?
Do the fluid lines come from Hydrastar or etrailer? Are they metal or the newer flexible lines?

Buy everything from Etrailer if you don`t know what to get call them they are VERY helpful. I used and Kodiak recommends the 1600 psi unit. I also used the flexible brake lines for ease of installation they are rated for 1600 lbs too. Hydrastar recommends metal brake lines of a certain diameter but Etrailer says whooy about that. I would get the 24` line kit of your liking and buy a short 18 inch to 2` whip and a coupling with a 90 degree bend on one end of the brake line, it makes it a lot easier to bring the line up from underneath and connect to the unit. You can see that in the picture. I mounted mine behind my 6volt battery box in the front storage compartment at the wire loom junction for most of the trailer systems. You will need to make wire connections on the Hydrostart and all the wires you need to connect to are right there, no extending wires necessary, easy.
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2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake
Electric Brakes ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
2018 F350 Ford 6.7 Dually Top Dog
Andersen Ultimate on pucks, 5th Airborne Mor/Ryde SRE 4000.... smooth ride
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:49 PM   #14
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Well just another upgrade to add to my already long list but the upside is if I combine it with the bearing replacement I already was looking at and possible suspension upgrades at least the install will be an all at one time sort of thing.....


Almost have to take out another loan to make all the upgrades that you need on one of these 5th wheels......
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:30 PM   #15
Dave W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bshgto View Post
Which model of Hydrastar did you use. I did not find an application chart on their website.
Did you use 1000, 1200, 1600 psi?
The Hydrastar HBA-V or the Hydrastar XL?
And also where did you mount it?
Do the fluid lines come from Hydrastar or etrailer? Are they metal or the newer flexible lines?

Buy everything from Etrailer if you don`t know what to get call them they are VERY helpful. I used and Kodiak recommends the 1600 psi unit. I also used the flexible brake lines for ease of installation they are rated for 1600 lbs too. Hydrastar recommends metal brake lines of a certain diameter but Etrailer says whooy about that. I would get the 24` line kit of your liking and buy a short 18 inch to 2` whip and a coupling with a 90 degree bend on one end of the brake line, it makes it a lot easier to bring the line up from underneath and connect to the unit. You can see that in the picture. I mounted mine behind my 6volt battery box in the front storage compartment at the wire loom junction for most of the trailer systems. You will need to make wire connections on the Hydrostart and all the wires you need to connect to are right there, no extending wires necessary, easy.
It's to each his own on using the Kodiak flex lines.

I just don't much care for a bunch of extra line lengths that are rolled up and then strapped underneath somewhere as I had seen on several 5ers before I made my leap. If I could find a braided stainless set of custom length flex lines, would have considered them as they will not balloon under pressure after a few years. 3/16: lines are all that are needed, not the 1/4" suggested by Hydrastar

As far as wiring, two of my wires (breakaway and brake controller) are all snaked under the front overhang to the truck connector junction box, one is to the the battery main plus terminal and the last is to the chassis ground. I do not have an accessible main terminal box nor did Keystone leave a bunch of dangling wiring in the front battery compartment
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:52 AM   #16
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What is the liability on doing this? I can hear the lawyers now (son in law is one) what was your experience to attempt this type of mod? Warranty on rest of undercarriage?
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:17 AM   #17
bshgto
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just a thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachgrowl View Post
What is the liability on doing this? I can hear the lawyers now (son in law is one) what was your experience to attempt this type of mod? Warranty on rest of undercarriage?
So what`s a Lawyer at the bottom of the ocean? It`s a start.
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2018.5 3791 Rear Den Montana, on the lake
Electric Brakes ..... Disk Brakes, it`s the only way
2018 F350 Ford 6.7 Dually Top Dog
Andersen Ultimate on pucks, 5th Airborne Mor/Ryde SRE 4000.... smooth ride
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Old 01-20-2018, 09:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by coachgrowl View Post
What is the liability on doing this? I can hear the lawyers now (son in law is one) what was your experience to attempt this type of mod? Warranty on rest of undercarriage?

You have to be kidding!! A safety enhancement? Done correctly?? Versus magnet brakes that barely stop your 12,ooo pound and (mostly) up 5th wheel?

If that is a worry, then never change the OEM China Bomb tires for ones that will survive years of the rigors of highway use, never pull a wheel to check the bearings for fear that you may lose a tire. etc, etc, etc

Warranty on the rest of the chassis - if you have owned it a year, you don't have one.

Further "How can you tell if a lawyer is lying? His lips are moving." (Apologies to any here that are in that practice - I know many legit lawyers from a past job)
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:02 AM   #19
mhs4771
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If you don't want to do the job yourself, contact these folks as they have teams to Techs around the country and will do the install right where you are while you watch.

https://performancetrailerbraking.com/
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Old 01-20-2018, 10:39 AM   #20
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Thank you I will use them.
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