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Old 09-18-2017, 04:23 PM   #21
beeje
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Mike3387, I totally agree. If you tow a trailer period you should be tested and pass some kind of test to determine weather or not you can tow it in a safe manor. You should be issued a special license to do able to do so.

As previously said, if you cant back it up, you should not be towing it.

I agree that there is no way to put back all the carnage from an accident scene to determine the weights of the vehicles involved.

As for the 40 year truck driver, I am sure you have seen your share of overloaded trucks and full well know that they can and do cause accidents when loads shift etc. Time is $ and if you could put 100k lbs on your 80k lbs rated rig you could perhaps make more $

There really does need to be some type of rules and regulation in the RV world to make sure what is being towed on our roads conform to the tow vehicle's weight ratings.

Imagine a Toyota Tundra with air bags/timbrins/load levelers/and helper springs towing a 18k triple axle toyhauler down the road. It would probably pull it and eventually stop it. BUT IT FOR SURE IS NOT THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB!!!
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:30 PM   #22
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Here's the thing, we are not talking about a tow vehicle being grossly overloaded and unsafe.

We are talking about the difference between an F-250 vs F350 &/or a GM or Dodge 2500hd vs 3500...

The trucks are essentially exactly the same in every respect except the rear spring packs which is easily rectified with an extra spring or air bags.

The sticker has sweet F all to do with safety or otherwise.

The rhetoric regarding lawyers if an accident happens is just that rhetoric as lawyers will always get involved hoping for some cash, insurance companies don't give a rats arse about a few hundred pounds of weight one way or the other.

Here is the kicker on all of it, if you go pay for it you can buy more weight for a tow vehicle !

DUH....
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:06 PM   #23
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Speedster 100, you are exactly correct in the fact that you can register your truck for different weights. When I bought my truck the dealer registered it at 7000#. It weighs around 8900# empty. Makes no sense to me, but it is cheaper.

I cant say with absolute certainty, but my 2014 GMC dually has a huge looking eaten ? 80 locker rear end. Not sure if the 2500 is the same, but some how I doubt it.

As to the springs, yes the 1 tons have an overload spring pack.

The biggest difference is that the duallys have twice as much rubber on the road that equates to WAY more load capacity. In fact a lot of people will overload there SRW tires before they reach max payload capacity. Duallys are much more stabile in side to side movement.

Test it for your self, try to push on the side of a fifth wheel while it is hitched up to a SWR truck and watch the rear tires scrum side to side. Then try the same while hitched to a dually. The difference should be night and day.

While towing my montana with my previous 2011 Chevy 3500 SWR truck I could feel the trucks rear end side to side movement mostly while descending down curvy mountain roads. Not a good feeling.

I know a lot of people are opposed to duallys for many reasons such as parking at store lots/fitting in garages/having to buy 2 more tires etc but in my opinion they are the cats meow for towing a heavy fifth wheel.

Not to farther complicate the issue but the vast majority of people have never even attempted to weigh their rigs and simply don't care. You can not go with what the truck or trailer listing says. It is the actual weight when ready to tow that matters.

I know what my truck weighs empty. I know what the camper weighs empty.( I had both weighed on the way home from purchase) I know what the combo weighs together loaded up in many different loading situations depending on where I am going and what I am taking along (with water or without/with a load of fire wood or without etc.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:16 PM   #24
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Here's the thing, you know what your trailer weigh's the day you weighed it, you know what your truck weighed the day you weighed it.

The cargo capacity of a given truck is the issue everyone is fixated on.

That could change so easily by moving something inside the trailer from back to front or front to back, water on board, sewage on board or not, whether it is raining etc etc you get the point.

So unless you want to start running like a commercial rig and weigh in constantly you will have no real idea and quite frankly for a few hundred pounds who really should give a rats butt...

I think most if not all the debates are in regard to SRW vehicles, I understand those that want the Dually's, they aren't for me for many reasons, they likely aren''t for those that have almost new SRW asking the questions on the forum as they suddenly found threads containing worry warts that claim the world is going to fall apart as your sticker on the door isn't quite up to snuff......

I'll stick with the advice of trying out how the units work together yourself and make your own dang decisions and don't let the weight police do the deciding for you.....
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:16 PM   #25
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Good one, Lynwood!
I thought I was on the MOC. Seems as though I went to a different forum reading this thread.
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Old 09-18-2017, 07:26 PM   #26
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I am not disagreeing. If you have the truck already, by all means give it a try and see how it goes. If you are a local camper only traveling a short distance, I don't see a problem with that. If you are going the travel from coast to coast traveling 10s of thousands of miles you need the right tool to do the job (that's all I'm saying) I am by know means a worry wart or I would be towing my Monty with a perterbuilt tractor LOL. What I am saying is that tow vehicles have tow/weight ratings for a reason. Campers have weight ratings for a reason. So one should choose the appropriate truck to tow the desired camper. Not the other way around.

Just to give you a totally unrelated example. I am a master carpenter by trade and I could come to your house and build you a treated wood deck off of your house using 2x6 or even 2x4 joist with nailed together 2x4s as posts to support it. I am absolutely certain that in most cases it would hold up just fine and would be no problem for yourself and your wife. The purpose of this ridicules example is that building codes would not allow me to build it that way fearing it would collapse due to the weight that could possibly be put upon it with many more people on it.

Just like that deck, tow vehicle's are tested and rated to carry/tow a certain amount of weight to be safe with out the danger of failing.

I think most of us have seen the picture of a small car (VW I think?)with a hack of plywood/drywall strapped to the roof of the car at home depot. Probably not harming anything for the 5 mile
drive home.

The point is that every thing is designed and engineered for there intended purpose and has there limits.
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:16 PM   #27
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If asking about how legally you are at fault if overweight setting at a light and someone hits you....

You are the overweight and illegal vehicle in the incident and "you should have not been on the road according to the law" so you are immediately at fault because had you not been there the now victim (really the person that cause the issue is now a victim) might not have hit you.

Stupid as it is... let a lawyer at you in court, no longer stupid.
So which cop is going to weight the 5er and truck???

So I would think the dealer who sold you the trailer would be liable as well to an extend for selling you a trailer that's bigger than what the truck can handle...
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:35 PM   #28
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So I am sitting at a red light 500 lbs overweight when a drunk driver plows into the rear of my rig and kills himself. Does anyone really think his heirs are going to successfully sue me because I am overweight? WILL NOT HAPPEN. Actual case in a Missouri courtroom: Drunk hit another driver who had no driver's license; argued the accident would not have happened if the unlicensed driver had not been driving. Jury laughed out loud and took 20 minutes to award the unlicensed driver lots of money.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:26 PM   #29
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So which cop is going to weight the 5er and truck???

So I would think the dealer who sold you the trailer would be liable as well to an extend for selling you a trailer that's bigger than what the truck can handle...
One in GA ~~ pulled a Chevy 1500 towing a TT for excessive sway
Told he would have to pull at minimum speed (50 in a 70)
Checked registration and trailer placard
Portable scales
2 1/2 hours later tow truck took the trailer
issued citation ~ over GCVWR
48 hours and storage fees would be added to towing bill
towing company pulled to a CG ~~ another bill
calling friends/family to find someone to tow him out of GA

I spoke with him Saturday as he was calling for someone with a bigger truck to help with no luck and running out of people to call. He wsas even asking people at the CG to move it for him.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:36 PM   #30
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Hello, My name is Steve and I am seeking some information on tow weights and how much cargo I can still carry. I have a 2016 F 250 single axile 4x4 6.7 diesel short bed. I am taking ownership of a 2012 Montana 3150 Thursday. I have installed a Pullrite 2700 slider hitch. The 3150 is in near perfect condition with 5.5 onan and satellite added. I have been reading a lot of posts and am concerned that I might be behind on truck size. Any and all comments are welcomed. Great Forum and once again Thanks.
Hello Steve, Welcome. I own a '14 3150RL. My suggestion first is to take the truck and trailer to a scale and actually see what you have as to actual weights.

I have a W/D in the front closet and when loaded for 4-5 months on a summer trip I will have 3200-3400lbs of pin weight. The trailer wheels are in such a position I have about 23-24% on the pin. With you having the Onan up front you will probably be pin heavy.

Go weight it, look at your GVWR sticker on your truck and see if you are within the weights. Air bags only make a overloaded truck sit level.

I am not the weight police, however, only YOU can determine your risk tolerance if the numbers don't work.

Just don't hit me if you are overweight/over gross, My atty will own everything you hope to own.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:51 PM   #31
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Mike639, don't know about dealer who sold the trailer being liable, I know for a Fact that Lazy Days in Florida will make you sign a statement if you TV isn't satisfactory to tow the RV you were buying, stating that you were advised and accept and all risks. Lazy Days way to Cover Their Tailends.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:46 PM   #32
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This thread is exactly what I explained to my Wife looking at 3791RD. We owned a F250 4x4 SWR SB w/6.4 diesel. I had to work her the math on a legal pad to make her understand the truck could handle the 5r but then it would not be safe to put in fuel, hitch, ~500# passengers, small generator, and some firewood. Talked her into a Ram 3500 4x4 DWR LB w/6.7 Cummins! We're both going to be happy campers.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:06 PM   #33
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Someone please close this thread - Simple answer to OP. GET IT WEIGHED and talk to someone in the know about weight.

More than likely, you will be over wight on the rear axle.

Move along - nothing to see here!
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:00 PM   #34
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Sorry, but sometimes it takes many people with many replies to get that done.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:10 PM   #35
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There is a very simple solution for those who would like to not see this thread, don't open it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:20 AM   #36
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Now if you really want to think of this a different way - http://www.automatedsafetyhitch.com - a guy pulled in for fuel with a Ford Excursion and a safety hitch - said he had a 42' 5er at the campground - they were headed to the west coast via CO from east Texas. the Safety Hitch lets the wheels turn when the 4 ways of turn signal are on, otherwise wheels are locked straight ... talk about load ratings
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:56 AM   #37
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I'm not a member of the weight police. All I look at is if it's safe. A 42 foot 5er with an Excursion gimme a break. Are you nuts.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:00 AM   #38
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I'm not a member of the weight police. All I look at is if it's safe. A 42 foot 5er with an Excursion gimme a break. Are you nuts.
Lynwood
Even duct tape can't fix stupid - but it sure does muffle the sound.
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