Montana Trailer Manual

[Phil P]

Hi

Has anyone else ever noticed that the manual received with the unit doesn’t seem to give any real pertinent information? Have you ever noticed that the page numbers in instructional paragraphs don’t match any thing in the book?

Here is the story.

I am in a RV park closed for the summer. The owner has requested that I don’t leave my water and waste hoses hooked up so the contract maintenance people don’t have to worry with them when they cut the grass. The power cord doesn’t cross any grass so I do have power. It gets lonely but you can't beat being within walking distance to your project.

I used the power fill to fill my potable water tank.

It was dark and when the tank started running water out of the outside fill pipe at the rear of the trailer I went to the front and turned the power fill valve off. Then I turned the water of at the park supply valve. Disconnected the hose and put everything away caped the fill valve and locked the door.

I went inside and turned the water pump on. Pump runs real quiet and I don’t have any water pressure.

I go back out to the water center and looked to see what is wrong. The three valves are only marked “off” and “on”. They are marked “Winterizing” “Heater bypass” and “Power Fill” or something about like that.

Now which ones are supposed to be “off” and which ones are supposed to be “on”. The power fill is easy to figure out. The rest is open for interpolation.

Get the manual for the trailer out.

The water system instructions don’t have any pictures and the description of what to do when you winterize don’t use the same terms as are marked on the water center. Then you get to “if you have this XXX system installed got to page 16A” or “If you have this ZZZ system installed got to page 16B”

Well there isn’t a page 16A or a page 16B.

Fortunately when it became apparent that we were going to have to replace the entire basement floor and water center I took picture of the water center so I could label the valves when the job was finished.

This picture is now in the manual with the instruction on how to use the water center.



May not be the best picture but it sure helps.


Phil P

Phil P

[K0LCB]

Thanks! Did you ever notice, most engineers have no common sense?

[DQDick]

It would be interesting to know how many of us have modified our water intakes. Ours all have quick disconnects on them. Your's has an interesting option. Many others, when they post a picture have unique set ups. At some point Keystone may figure out that what they put on for original equipment isn't very popular.

[CORattler]

When you do get it figured out, may I suggest that you use a label maker to mark each item with something that makes sense to you. Made life easier for me.

[richfaa]

Mine were marked on the 2013 3402 Big Sky with a sticker beside each knob indicating on and off position. I do have quick disconnects on the water outlets..

[Phil P]

Richfaa

Yes that’s the way mine are marked. The problem is no where does the trailer manual or the instructions on the door tell you what is normal for each valve “ON” or “OFF”?

On the heater bypass valve when the handle is in the “on” position does that mean the bypass is on or the water is on? Then the instructions in the manual tell you to turn the valve to “bypass” without telling you if this is on or off. The manual tells you to go to page 6-12 for more information. There is no page 6-12. If you got to pages 6 thru 12 they don’t talk about the water system.

The winterizing valve when it is in the “on” position does that mean the water system is on or winterizing system is on?

Then when you get in the manual it starts talking about optional systems but doesn’t give enough information to determine if you have the optional system or not and the pages the manual tells you to go to too see how the optional systems work are not in the book.

Once you have the system working take a picture and put it in the manual. That way you can get your shower working when you turn the wrong valve in the dark. LOL

Phil P

[jrpend]

Way off topic, but what kind of quick disconnects do you use? I've tried some on my current SOB and they always leaked.

Thanks,
Jerald Pendleton
Montana Wannabe

quote:Originally posted by DQDick

It would be interesting to know how many of us have modified our water intakes. Ours all have quick disconnects on them. Your's has an interesting option. Many others, when they post a picture have unique set ups. At some point Keystone may figure out that what they put on for original equipment isn't very popular.

[Phil P]

Jrpend

I don’t consider this off topic. If I had quick disconnects that didn’t leak on all of my fittings it would have save me $9,900.00 that it cost to replace the water center and the floor.

Of course if Keystone had caulked the water fittings and the drain thru the floor I wouldn’t have had to replace them either.

Phil P

[richfaa]

The manual supplied with the 06 and this 13 were well not very informative. I have never looked at the book for this 13. Fortunately I am not to bright as the labels made sense to me and I had no problem identifying what was on or off. Maybe it was good that I did not read the book.

We had quick disconnects on both our Montana's as well as our other rv's .Purchased them at Home depot. We purchased them because I am lazy and the quick disconnects were easy to hook and un hook.

[Phil P]

There have been several other posts on this forum about where those valves are supposed to be for normal operation.

If they had just used the same terminology in the manual that they used on the labels then there wouldn’t be a problem.

But they label the valve on and off then use the term “turn the valve to winterize” or turn the valve to “Bypass” in the manual it doesn’t make sense especially if the valve got turned before you read the book.

What happened to me was it had gotten dark while I was filling the water tank. That valve is marked so it makes sense. But when I went to the front of the trailer I apparently turned the wrong valve.

Then when the pump ran and I didn’t have water I got a light and turned to power fill valve to “normal Flow” as the label says I guessed at which of the other two Valves I turned. Went back in the trailer and ran the pump. No Joy.

So I go back to the water center and swapped valves. That didn’t seem to help either.

So I went to the manual. That didn’t help.

Then I remembered the picture I made so I could put the labels on after the water center was replaced.

That shows both the winterization valve and the heater bypass valve in the off position.

That fixed the problem.

The valves should be marked “Bypass” and “Normal Flow” for the heater and “Winterize” and “Normal flow” for the winterize valve the power fill valve is marked “fill” and “normal flow” then the manual would work.

I have never used the heater bypass or the winterization valve.

If it gets cold enough in south Florida to need to use them I will put the trailer on a barge and take it to Porto Rico or something.

Phil P

[richfaa]

We also have never use the bypass and winterization valves due to being in Florida for the winter. I guess it was a good move to not have read the manual.

[Phil P]

Actually it was a good move not to have ever moved one of the valves without knowing which one.

Had I turned one on in the daylight I would have know which one.

I probably gave up to soon out of fear of damaging the pump.

They still should be comprehensively labeled so that anyone could tell where they belong for “normal flow” like the power fill valve is labeled.

And now that I study it a little bit more the only one I should have been turning to get the system working would have been the winterizing valve. The heater valve would only have left me without hot water. I don’t know where the water would go with the winterizing valve in the
“ON” position but that one and the power fill valve would be the only ones that would cause the pump to just run without delivering water to the faucets in the trailer and the power fill valve is the only one marked comprehensively.

I would have a larger group of friends (And fewer funerals)today if some controls had been marked in a comprehensive manner.

Phil P

[richfaa]

The thing is had you turned on the electric hot water you would have burned up the element with the hot water tank empty.

[Phil P]

Hi

I just tried turning the heater bypass valve to “ON” (ON because bypass doesn’t exist) and it doesn’t drain the heater.

You see what I am getting at. The way the manual is written you can’t determine if turning the water heater valve to “on” drains the heater or not. You can’t even determine if “ON” is the same as “Bypass”.

All I can say is the trailer works when both valves are positioned like the picture.

I am due to change the Zink Anode soon. I will turn the heater bypass valve to the “ON” position and drain the heater and see if water comes out of the drain when I turn the city water supply on.

The way I understand the manual turning the heater bypass to “Bypass” like the manual says it should prevent the heater from filling with water after you have drained it.

Phil P

[drurytr]

I had the same experience on my 2013 3582RL. The manual is so generic to cover everything that Keystone makes there is not 1 thing that is specific to my RV. I also had to take time to write up with pictures how to use the water control station. Looks like you have it figured out so my experience can only agree with what you have already figured out.

[hickory]

Re: Water heater valves. Turning the valve to "bypass"will bypass the heater. If yours is marked "off", and you set it at "off" you are shutting off the bypass and filling the heater. As your picture shows, turning your valve to "on" should bypass the heater. Off should fill the heater. ( The key word here is "should"). I think they must have a different person label each unit in his own unique way!!!!!!

[Irlpguy]

Phil is absolutely correct, if you are going to provide instructions on the use, care and maintenance of an RV, the instructions should certainly refer to the way the items are identified. If you are telling someone to put the valve in the bypass position, then "bypass" should appear as an option at the valve.

Although I had figured all this out, I printed up labels on my printer and put them in the convenience center to help anyone that might be helping me with the procedure. This also helps me so that my gray matter does not have to go into overdrive to do what really needs to be done.

The only time I use the heater bypass is when I am winterizing, I suspect that is it's only value so that you don't have to put 10 gal of antifreeze in it.

These genius's should have to run through a pre delivery workup before they write these manuals.

[K0LCB]

I think the real problem is design engineers never spent a night in a RV.

[bncinwv]

I have always said that a manual is not needed as long as we have the MOC. Those unfortunate ones who do not know about the MOC could be in dire straits though!
Bingo

[DonandBonnie]

I believe that all owners manuals are written by resident engineers of Outer Mongolia who were educated by reading two issues of Popular Mechanics and taking the required one semester of combined English/Spanish/French/German and Swahili. Actual first hand knowledge of the product in the manual is optional. The manual is then passed through the corporate legal team who adds all of the comments saying that use of the product for it's intended purpose should be avoided because it will cause serious injury or death. Following that all commentary in the manual that would make any kind of sense is rewritten so that the company cannot in any vague way be held legally accountable for anything in any way, shape or manner.