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Old 06-02-2016, 12:03 AM   #1
Golfmedik
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Very unhappy with new AC system!

We've only had our new Montana about 8 weeks now and have camped in it 3 times, but have noticed a huge "let down" with the new AC system in the rigs. Sure they are more quiet as advertised, but they DO NOT work well on only 30A. Let me explain. We've only been able to kepp the rig at about 10* lower than ambient air on the last two trips due to our state parks being only 30A here. The rear AC unit puts out cold air, but has no "pressure" to it. With only 6 vents in the main part of the camper, no cold volume is possible. During our trips, I've had to run the generator with both units on to cool down the unit, before switching back to just the rear air. Other things we've done is to run both AC units on 30a with NOTHING else in the camper on. That works until you need something else on in the unit. Also, I've used floor fans to circulate the air. I've had the unit at the dealer for the last week to see if there is a problem. They've taken the unit off and patched a couple of small places in the duct at the unit, with tape to stop any air leaking, but still not much luck. I've had two other new campers in the last 5 years with the "quick cool" feature and have never had a problem.
The dealer made sure that both AC units were drawing the same amperage and both units have the same fan speed. The only thing we've been able to come up with is to run the rear unit on AC and then turn on the front AC unit on with FAN ONLY to help circulate the air while on 30a. I'm learning that this in not a problem for Montana alone as FR is using this system now too. The Sandpiper that was in the dealership this week had the same system and the owner was quite unhappy after being in FL the previous week and not being able to keep his unit cool as well.
We are leaving for Myrtle Beach in a week but we will have 50A and I'm not expecting any problems, but will let you know. I'm really disappointed with this system on 30A service however. Wondering if any of you have had similar problems?
 
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:39 AM   #2
gjetzen
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Golfmedik, just a question and not trying to be a wise guy. Is it the heat or is it the humidity that make it uncomfortable? I have and older Montana with only 1 A/C unit and at best I can get about 12-13 degree difference from outside air temp. 15 degrees if I'm parked in the shade and the unit runs constantly. I have often wanted to put a second A/C unit on. What I found that really helps is to run a dehumidifier set at or below 45% humidity. This makes it more comfortable inside and also lets the A/C unit cycle. I have learned that if it is 90 degrees outside the best I can hope for inside is 77-78 degrees, so I set the thermostat for 78 and turn on the dehumidifier set at 45% and all the humidity will be sucked out and the temp will get to 78 pretty quick.
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:50 AM   #3
bethandkevin
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Could it be a problem with the power supply at the parks? Last weekend we too stayed in a state park. The same one on the same lot we do every year. But, this year we had power issues. We can usually only run one A/C unit, but can use other devices as well. This year if we used the microwave with the front fan and rear A/C we popped the breaker. At home, I can run both A/C units on 30 amp service, but no other devices.
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:58 AM   #4
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We have been happy with ours. Did have to take a shopvac and clear out quite a bit of build debris.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:02 AM   #5
washley1
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I can add that my rig and AC units are almost 8 years old, and they are noisy, but they work real well here in Florida and elsewhere on 30 amp. Florida state parks are mostly 30, and one unit running is usually all that is needed. Im talking 20 plus degrees off the outside temps.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:37 AM   #6
Rondo
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Take your return air vents down and check the filters, see if there is any sawdust and etc in them, and also take a mirror and flashlight and check the vents to see if they have collapsed and how much debris in them. There seems to be a problem with these vents collapsing. I found one of mine had and I took a piece of 2X2 wood, cut it to the correct length and put it up in the middle of the vent to hold it open. It has worked wonders as to air flow in the unit. Also the 30 amps is enough to run the two units but it really could be damaging the units because there is barely enough power to handle the two units and there is always other draw from things in the Monte that you don't think about using power. We also use a small fan to blow the air either from the front A/C to the rear of the unit or from the back to the front. We seldom ever run both unit at once and we have hot, muggy temps here in Nebraska. Also, you have to remember that the Monte is not insulated like a Stick and Brick and you will never get it to cool down like it does at home. Keep us informed on how your trip to Myrtle Beach goes with your 50 amp hookup.
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Old 06-02-2016, 03:44 AM   #7
richfaa
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According to our EMS PT 50C each of the units in our 13 3402 draw more than 10 amps each. We draw 2 to 3 amps at rest that does not leave much room for anything else at 30 amps max.
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:04 AM   #8
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No offense taken to any remarks, I'm just trying to see if anyone else has had a similar problem. Yes, the humidity does play a role in the heat here. Today for example it will be 92* with 90% humidity.
The power was an initial thought, but it is now at 3 different campgrounds so far. As far as debris, I've ran cameras from the ends back towards the AC unit and the dealer ran one yesterday from the AC unit in. No debris was found, just a couple of places that needed to be sealed with tape to stop small air leaks. I've taken the returns down and we've done draft tests and all seem to be fine with them.
For those that haven't seen the new style AC system, it is a "race track" design that makes a big oval between the two units. It's called the Dual Whisper Quiet AC system. IT has two 15K units on it. There is not a "quick cool" feature on the new style units anymore to make them more quiet. There are 6 vents in the main part of the camper, one in the bath and two in the bedroom. These vents are on the ducts that are in a circle so to speak. The other style ducts are just long rectangle style duct systems that are blocked off on the ends, thereby increasing air flow. The new style just doesn't force the air out of the vents as much as they should as there is nothing to build pressure against.
As I stated in the first post, we've had two new Sandpipers in the last 5 years and a toyhauler, all could be cooled easily on just the one air in the center of the rig. I could open the "air dump" on the unit and cool the camper with a great deal of forced air, nothing like this can be done with the new units. There is just not enough air flow to cool the unit. Also, the other units were 42ft long units, a little longer than the current Montana.
Just not happy right now..
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:32 AM   #9
FordMan1966
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My 2015 Montana 3611RL Legacy with 2 A/C's work well even in extremely Hot conditions. I keep it plugged into 30AMP in the driveway and 50AMP in campgrounds and no problem. We are headed to Myrtle Beach Travel Park on June 7th for 2 weeks ourself.
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Old 06-02-2016, 06:49 AM   #10
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Do you leave the fan on Auto or set it to High all the time? We have seen better results with leaving it on High as the auto speed seems more like the medium speed. Also, is there cooler vs hotter spots in your trailer? We have an indoor/outdoor weather station and the back of the trailer near our AC (non-whisper units with the dump) is often several degrees cooler than the area near the thermostat. Leaving the fan on High all the time seems to help. We periodically have to switch to dump to get the rig to cool down better as with ours going through the ceiling racetrack vents you described, it slowly loses ground on a hot day, especially when we are only running the rear AC such as when we are on a 30A site and I am using the electric to power the fridge vs using propane.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:11 AM   #11
richfaa
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The dark colors on this 13 3402 Big sky are pretty but soak up beat and transmit that heat inside. Measurements with an IR thermometer outside then inside will be shocking. The large rear window is great for outside views but is a huge magnifying glass that transmits heat inside. We added a awning on our main slide to help keep the direct sunlight out and are installing a wrap on the rear window to defuse the sunlight. Running both A/C in Florida on 90 plus days will run all day and just keep up.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:32 AM   #12
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Nothing scientific about what I am going to say, but hear goes. With the quick cool ability gone, maybe the two units are designed to work together. With only 30 amps avail, there just may not be enough amps to work efficiently. Just for grins try covering the vents in the bathroom and bedroom.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:23 PM   #13
scott-pati
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With todays RV's and A/C units you need 50amps to run both A/C's and you need both units on or forget it! It's not going to keep you cool. Some other brands are adding a 3rd A/C unit, what does that tell ya.

Bottom line you need both units running on a very hot and humid day, there's no way around it.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:24 PM   #14
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When we had 1 unit and it was 90 + we closed all shades and covered skylight in bathroom. We closed off the bedroom and it improved the air in the rooms we used during the day. Towards evening when the sun went down we opened up the bedroom. It seemed to help with the air.
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:15 PM   #15
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Don't know how well keystone is doing these days on ac installs, but if you take down any outlet in the ceiling...you will probably find poor sealing between the duct and outlet. Also, the outlet probably sticks well up into the duct...reducing airflow. If yours aren't like this, I applaude keystone for finally getting it right. But I doubt that they are taking the time on the line to do good sealing or cutting down the plastic outlets. As far as 30 amp service, we don't do that anymore. John
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:30 PM   #16
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Yes, the fan speed stays on HIGH. The Fantastic Fans in the kitchen and bath have covers over them. As far as sealing the vents, the new style vents are a two piece design that seal well when inserted into the ceiling. No taping the gap between the ceiling and duct anymore as with my other units.
I ran both units on HI one day last week in the driveway by running the generator. The unit cooled as I expected it to, just no way of doing it on one I guess. I will try running the rear on HI AC and the front fan on to generate more air flow to see if it helps.
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:41 AM   #17
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"For those that haven't seen the new style AC system, it is a "race track" design that makes a big oval between the two units. It's called the Dual Whisper Quiet AC system. IT has two 15K units on it. There is not a "quick cool" feature on the new style units anymore to make them more quiet."


I wonder if the "loop" forces cool air over the warn evaporator in the "off" unit. If so, it would definitely rob the cooled air of any temperature differential. As JABURKHOLDER stated, maybe the units are designed to work together. But if that were the case, what would be the point of two zones. Maybe a call to Keystone might be in order on this one.
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bethandkevin

""


I wonder if the "loop" forces cool air over the warn evaporator in the "off" unit. If so, it would definitely rob the cooled air of any temperature differential. As JABURKHOLDER stated, maybe the units are designed to work together. But if that were the case, what would be the point of two zones. Maybe a call to Keystone might be in order on this one.
That was my same question to the service manager. I too think I may end up calling them myself.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:34 AM   #19
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We've done 30amps in the Kansas summer, but you have to realize comfort will be relative. We have insulated pads for the vent fans, and they have covers. All slides have toppers and all windows have awnings. All curtains stay shut and the ceiling fan and a smaller fan are directed to blow right on us. Can keep it in the 80's in the late afternoon, but it doesn't get any better than that. So for the most part, in that weather it's 50amp or we move on.
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:22 AM   #20
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That is the truth,even with our "old" non whisper air it did not do the job on really hot days, it just made it tolerable
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by scott-pati

With todays RV's and A/C units you need 50amps to run both A/C's and you need both units on or forget it! It's not going to keep you cool. Some other brands are adding a 3rd A/C unit, what does that tell ya.

Bottom line you need both units running on a very hot and humid day, there's no way around it.
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