Autoformer use in Canada

[David and Jo-Anna]

Prior to coming up into Canada, I only had occasion to use my autoformer on two occasions, when CG voltage was dropping so low that it was causing my Surge Guard to cut power periodically. Up here in Canada, however, I've found the need to use the autoformer frequently.

Virtually all of the Canadian campgrounds we've stayed in on our way to Alaska have only 30 amp power. Many of these campgrounds do not have circuit breakers on the power poles at the individual sites, which makes me wonder what happens when rigs try to pull more than 30 amps. What I do notice is that the voltage level on my Kill-a-watt meter fluxuates downward, close to the 102v cutoff on my Surge Guard, with some frequency, particularly at times when electicity demand is heavy.

Am I correct in speculating that the lack of circuit breakers at the sites is causing a kind of "brown out" at times when overall demand picks up? Is there any downside to using my autoformer as a matter of routine up here in Canada at these campgrounds?

[bncinwv]

Giving my perspective only based on our stays at older campgrounds, I use my Autoformer at all times that I am on any power source other than generator. I cannot percieve any reason to do otherwise based on the protection that I have seen to date. This reflects my opinion only based on my preferences for your consideration. If other MOCers know of any downside, I also would be interested in their justification for not using it. (As a side note, mine is out of view in the battery compartment).
Bingo

[Glenn and Lorraine]

All I know is my Autoformer in my old Monty had saved my AC unit on numerous occasions and I have yet to set up in any Canadian CG. There are plenty of CGs right here in the US of A with low voltage to convince me I need it. In the old Monty I did have to set up the Autoformer in every low voltage campground but it paid for itself many times over.
I ordered my current 50AMP when I ordered my present Monty. I had it hardwired and hidden from view. Hiding it eliminates any possible problems from CG owners that have no idea of just how it boosts the voltage without taking any more power from the CG. Many CGs disallow Autoformers due to their own ignorance. Mine is always connected and always ready to provide that extra 10% when needed. I wouldn't hook up without it.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Permanent install, always on, always providing protection.

Enjoy your trip!

[snfexpress]

Glenn and Carol - where in your rigs is the autoformer located? Do you still plug into the back of the Monty?

Thanks,

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Mine is under the side isle steps. This is where my dealer installed it. By removing 4 screws in the basement wall panel I have access but it is completely hidden by the panel should a CG owner happen to look in the basement.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Al's install did NOTHING to change the outside configurations that came with Tana. Our plug is in the rear, but, not on the back wall.

here is his install:

http://www.geocities.com/genieyorks/autoformer

We do NOT have anything at all for generator use. To use a generator and the autoformer takes some fancy wiring like Bingo did, I believe. Or, Al would have to pull a lot of stuff out of that cuby hole and unhook and all that. That ain't likely to happen.

If I misunderstood the question, please ask again!

[fulltimedreamer]

Mine is installed permanently under the refrigerator, behind the furnace air return. I can bypass it to use my portable generator. Its always there if I need it and it's hard to steal what you can't see.

[Bill and Ann]

Mine is connected on the outside beside the power post at the CG and then the coach is plugged into the autoformer.
Always use it wherever we go.

[richfaa]

How things differ. We had the autoformer and never had a occasion to use it and we have been in C.G's all over the country and some in Canada.
We also have the PT 50C surgeguard that we test the C.G power pole before plugging the Camper in. Now the PT-50 has dropped the power to the camper on a few occasions and found bad power at the C.G pole before we hooked up. We sold the autoformer to Mudchief at the N.E rally as we felt we did not have the need for it. If the power goes low or high and the PT-50 shuts us down and we stay down we will just crank up the generator.Just our experience....

[David and Jo-Anna]

Rich--my experience with my autoformer was similar to yours for the first year we owned our Big Sky, but it changed dramatically when we came up here into western Canada. Even up here, when we arrive at a campground and I test the power pole with my Kill-a-watt meter, everything looks good--voltage without any load is often around 120v. But once I hook up and put a load on the power supply, voltage will often drop to the 104-108v range, with fluxuations that bring it down close to the 102v cutoff point of my Surge Guard. And that's with only maybe 15 amps of load on the system. Add much more of a load, and the surge guard may be cutting off the power. So I'm finding the Autoformer to be a valuable thing to have here.
At the same time, we are doing some dry camping along the way, including stays at some provincial parks that don't have power hookups. So far, we've only stayed one night at any such parks, so I haven't had to turn on my generator. But if and when we decide to stay more than one night, I will have to use my generator. On those occasions, I have a setup that let's me unplug the autoformer as I understand that autoformers and generators don't go together.
As for permanently wiring in an autoformer, I decided not to do that because of concerns that, if installed upstream from my surge guard, the autoformer would see any surges first and could get fried by a bad surge. Since I hadn't used the autoformer much at all back in the lower 48, and don't expect to use it much when we get back there, I'm content to plug it in only when I need it. But glad I have the autoformer here in Canada, and would recommend that anyone heading up this way consider bringing one along.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Well, this is from my point of view, BUT OF COURSE!! HA HA

We need the autoformer here in Michigan State Parks, a LOT.

I thought that many of the parks we stay in while on the road, you know, upscale ones, like the one in RGV, one of the top parks in the Valley and one of the newest, with 50 AMPS at all sites. Well, thought we would never need the autoformer there.

Imagine my surprise when we had some 100 degree days in March, park was 80% occupied, and the autoformer kicked in and STAYED on.

Gotta say, you guys that feel you do not need the autoformer must be staying in a lot better parks than Al and I find along the way.

Again, I don't fully understand the electrical, but, I do know that I would rather have it available at a moments notice to kick in, and have it, than to realize we needed it, and then have to go do all the hookup stuff. Did I ever say, we are basically lazy!

[richfaa]

"Gotta say, you guys that feel you do not need the auto former must be staying in a lot better parks than Al and I find along the way.'you know Carol that is part of it. The last time we were in a State Park we had a Pop up Camper. We are very picky about were we stay and we do spend more than we should for Camp grounds. That's just us??? I can understand the need for a AF in the out of the way places and perhaps when and If we do the Alaska thing we will have to purchase another. The PT50C will protect us in the event of high or low voltage and it has. We do recognize the need and value of the AF.It was not doing us any good..perhaps mudchief will make better use of it.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Oh, Rich,

If you only knew how funny this really is! Al is very picky about his campgrounds too. I just don't quite understand why our autoformer is activated so many times, and I don't mean just in the State campgrounds. When on the road, we stay in more 8 and 9 and 10 rated campgrounds than we do 3 , 4 or 5 rated. Believe me, just cause they got a 9 rating cross the board does not mean the autoformer gets to sleep that night. Lots of new campgrounds have the old AF just a humming.

Ain't it great, telling war stories??

[richfaa]

Hey..if everyone was the same and had the same experiences..what fun would it be.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Rich, As I told you in Gettysburg, there have been many instances in some of the "better" CGs where we needed our AF. I would much rather spend $500+ bucks on an AF insurance policy than $1500 bucks replacing the AC.
Your PT50C will protect you I have no doubt but, on a HOT day, I'd much rather return to a fully air conditioned rig than to one where the PT50C has shut the power down. Even with a generator it could take hours to get that rig cooled down. OK, you have a generator, but what about the CGs that do not allow generators? Over the years we have been in a number of them and there are many of them that do not allow generators running at night. What about that warm, muggy night when the PT50C shut down the power and you now have no AC? My AF being hardwired protects me and my Monty from these unforseen instances. As much as I hate to say it, I have a strong feeling, somewhere down the road, you will be reinvesting in a new AF.
One last question, I imagine you carry insurance on yourself, on Helen, your TV, your Monty, maybe even the Bird and who knows what else. Just because you never needed them policys do you cancel them?

[richfaa]

Our primary purpose was to protect the 3400. The PT-50C does that. It will shut down the 3400 in the event of low or high voltage and turn it back on when the power returns to a acceptable level. When the power is off it is off no matter what. We were more concerned with protecting the 3400. The AT will boost when the voltage drops to 117V but that is not a voltage that is damaging to the camper. You can find 117V most anywhere which is why folks will see the boost On..It will remove boost at 118V. The PT-50C will shut down at 104 V and 132V and those will damage induction type appliances. The AF will protect the camper against a surge at the cost of its life. Again our primary purpose was to protect the 3400 not to boost voltage levels... We have a generator for that.We do not minimize the value of the AF and if we do make the Alaska trip we will no doubt buy another one. The 3400 is protected..that was the goal..The AF was not of value to us now. so it went to someone who had a need.

[Bruce Lenhardt]

Dumb question. Is the PT-50C a standard part of the electical system on the new Montanas or is that an option???

[rogue]

Bruce, Not a dumb question at all. The PT-50C is a surge protector that you can buy (not part of the Montana nor an option from Keystone). It protects from over or under voltage. It also checks to make sure your input power is correct. Both legs of the 120vac, ground, and Neutral (L-N, L-N, L-G, L-G, L-L and N-G), and monitors all of these on a on going basis. You can buy either a unit for permanent install, or a portable unit. It shows you the ongoing status and has error codes to tell you exactly what is wrong, also a code to tell you if the unit is not functioning correctly.

I do not own them or have stock in the company, nor work for them or any affiliate. But I do have the portable unit and do use it.
Bob

[richfaa]

http://www.viprv.com/ems/ems.html#pt50