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Old 07-21-2005, 03:31 PM   #41
Native Tex
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Well I guess an updae is in order. Left my truck at my dealer all day and of course they could not find any problems within the wiring or program codes for the trailer brake controller. I watched as they plugged in their new tester at the bumper 7 pin plug. It read perfect of course. I guess I am back to square one. I suspect that when I do find my problem it is going to be something very simple. I am going to re-check all the trailer connectors as suggested above and go from there. Will keep you other Ford owners posted.
 
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:37 PM   #42
Montana_1240
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I’m kicking myself for not staying in touch with the forum for too long. We’re presently at a KOA in Streetsboro, OH, and enjoying Wi-Fi.

I have been dealing with intermittent “Trailer Disconnect” alarms for a week, now. I even had a few “Trailer Fault” alarms. I thought for sure I had it fixed after looking at the bed-side connector I had installed when the hitch was put in. The wires leaving the connector were pressed hard against the inside of the fender well, and then the bundle was wrapped under the end of the connector, also pressing against the fender well. I undid that mess, and took the connector apart, and found nothing loose or shorted. The crimp-on splices were suspect. But in no case was I able to cause a fault while flexing the wiring, or stressing the splices.

While I haven’t been under the lower covers of the trailer, searching out the brake wires, I have double-checked the hitch harness, and the splice box on the pin box. I looked over, and stressed the exposed wiring near all the wheels. No loose or shorted wires to be found.

No matter how much I thought I had “fixed it,” I am still getting that dang fault. No matter how frequently it’s on, though, I still have trailer brakes when flipping the paddle. Plus, I’ve had to do a couple semi-panic stops, and even with the fault, the trailer slowed without a problem, even though the sliding scale doesn’t show while the alarm is beeping. And it seems only to be an issue after we’ve been on the road for at least half an hour.

In the Ford manual, it seems to claim that once you get that “Trailer Disconnect” alarm, it stays on until you turn the key off and back on. WRONG! Mine comes and goes of its own accord. I haven’t been to a Ford dealer who is ready or equipped to scan for codes, or even discuss brake controllers, yet. Having bought the truck in Alabama, and not being ready to go back there until late fall, I will have to try to get Ford to admit to some flaw. And from the posts I’m reading, here, it does seem as though someone’s gotten Ford to at least admit to something.

I’m going to keep checking, and hope someone comes up with a fix.

Oh, and I’m not dismissing that some trailers surely much have some wiring, or even brake solenoid problems. But this just smells of a flaw in the controller. Especially since it’s going away on its own, without me having to shut the thing off. And at some times, if I pop open the small compartment under the controller, it seems that I can exacerbate the problem by rapping on the controller, and tugging on the harness.

I do still have my old Prodigy. I’m wondering if it plugs into the same harness that’s presently plugged into the Ford TBC. Anyone have a clue? I can use it temporarily, just to show Ford that there’s nothing wrong with the trailer…A thing I feel pretty confident in.

But being full-timers, and presently not staying in any one spot for too long, it’s tough to bring the fiver into a dealer for them to spend a day going over wiring…And it sounds as if not all dealers actually do the requested checks! Plus, I’ve stopped at two Ford dealers from Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, to southern Ohio, and couldn’t get a service department to admit to having anyone on hand to even check the codes!

And isn’t there some flaw in the computers on the 2005 Super Dutys, that Ford needs to fix? Something about fuel control? I have yet to see a recall on any Ford site. But some sites have mentioned the problem, and foretold of a recall.

Thanks, all!

Steve
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:15 AM   #43
Native Tex
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Gyro I am not sure who your Ford dealer in Alabama is, but ours in Huntsville has a handy tool that they plug in and simulate a trailer connection. It is something new. My dealer said that mine is the third such truck this year with a problem. However, Ford has not put out a fix as of yesterday. He called their tech guy in Dearborn. The issues continues. Good luck from a fellow Alabamian.
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:30 AM   #44
Montana_1240
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Native Tex,

I was wondering if someone had one of those. I was going to figure out one by myself, and hang it on my trailer's connector and see how long it might take to get it to generate an alarm. I was just wondering what to use to simulate the brakes, because it'd need to be able to take some power.

I won't be back to Dothan, Alabama until later this year. But I'm guessing that where there are trailers and big sales of Super Dutys, there should be one of those.

I have been watching some of the posts, though. Now I'm wondering if it just couldn't be one of my brake leads inside a brake drum. They all seem to report that some sloppy connections are haunting a great many trailers.

Sigh....

Steve
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Old 07-23-2005, 04:50 PM   #45
sreigle
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Gyro, I don't recall any of them ending up being a problem in the truck except one that had a wiring problem in or near the connector. The rest were all in the trailer wiring and most of those in the drum.

I haven't heard of any problem with the TBC in the Fords other than those built prior to 3/23/05 don't put much current to the brakes when idling, which is a concern to me since holding those brakes is how I pop the slider hitch. O.V., any idea what kinds of problems they're talking about? Mine has worked flawlessly and is absolutely the smoothest controller I've ever used. None of the banging in the hitch any more and a very smooth stop.
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Old 07-23-2005, 05:24 PM   #46
Montana_1240
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Steve,

I'm getting that impression as well. There's another Brake Controller thread in the General category that seems to show more problems with in-wheel wiring shorts/breaks, than TBC problems.

But as I just admitted to RichFAA in that thread, I'm lazy. I'd like for Ford to look into my problem with a quick code check, and maybe see if the truck needs a newer TBC. I bought mine early in 2005. Could be that's a problem. Though the trouble occurs at highway speeds, rather than idle. I couldn't get it to duplicate while messing with teh truck's harness to save my life while standing still idling.

Since we're at a nice camp near Cleveland, if I call a dealer near Toledo, and get an appointment to go in, we may stay here a few extra days and let Montana deal with it as a warranty issue. Since it does seem to be more likely a trailer in-wheel wiring problem.

I just don't feel like coping with all that exertion in such hot and humid weather.

I'll report back if I do get a fix. Or not...

I'll know within an hour of driving, I'm sure.

Steve
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Old 07-24-2005, 09:06 AM   #47
sreigle
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I don't blame you for wanting Ford to check it out first, especially since it will be checked under warranty. But I'd bet on it being in the trailer. I have been wrong many times before, though.

As point of reference, we bought this one in October, 2004. It was built 7/22/04. So ours is one of the early TBC's. I emailed Ford Customer Satisfaction, trying to talk them into replacing it with the newer one at no cost to me since we have the slider hitch. While in Independence, MO, I got a call from a Ford cust satisfaction rep saying they would arrange for the dealer in Indpendence to replace the controller. The dealer said he'd have to order it when I talked to him. This was the day before the Fourth of July holiday and we were leaving the day after the holiday so I had to decline at that time. When we got to Montana I called Ford and got a different rep who said the cost would be on me since the TBC functions as designed. I couldn't get past that with this one. I asked the local dealer the cost and it would be over $300. So I decided against the change, for now at least. Since we've only had to use the slider four times in almost ten years it's not that big a deal. I'll just have to block the trailer wheels next time I need to use it.
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:29 AM   #48
Montana_1240
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Steve,

I just checked and found we purchased ours in November of 2004, so we’d have an early generation of TBC, as well.

But since my problem comes at high speeds, (plus we have two alternators, so it’s not likely a voltage or current problem,) I’m guessing it’s a trailer problem.

So you lose braking, all together, when near idle speeds? What a pain that must be.

Keep on Ford. I’m guessing that they will relent, eventually. Just tell them you’ve been posting about this problem for a while, and will simply continue to do so. They seemed to take a lot of stock in my filling out a “Customer Satisfaction” survey, after I bought my truck. Hearing that a disgruntled customer’s loose on the Internet might persuade them that just giving you the new TBC would be worthwhile!


Steve
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Old 07-24-2005, 01:32 PM   #49
sreigle
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I don't lose all braking at idle. It does send around 2 volts to the brakes. It's just not enough to hold the trailer still so I can let the truck move forward to pop the slider. So I'll have to block the trailer wheels, which is what the slider manual says to do anyhow. I've just never had to block the wheels before.

I think I'll email Ford again about this.

Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2005, 03:39 PM   #50
Bob Pasternak
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Something I found in a brake site:
In low voltage (12VDC) systems, voltage drop can be very notable. From the tow vehicle battery all the way back to the brake magnets can be 30’ or more of wiring. It is very important that your power wiring be large enough to compensate for the voltage drop experienced in the system. Use minimum 14 gauge wire or larger for both the (+) positive wire from the brake controller and the (-) negative wire from the magnets back to the tow vehicle.
Brake magnets should be parallel wired for optimum system performance.

Also never use the trailer frame or brake cluster backing plate for the (-) brake negative current return. The negative (-) wire must be brought all the way through the trailer plug back to the tow vehicle negative for optimum system performance. Loose connections at the trailer plug, wire taps, and voltage drop from wiring that is too small can radically affect your electric brake system performance. Installation tip - Never use pinch type wire taps for electric brake wiring. They may be adequate for trailer lighting systems, but the high current draw for electric brakes require compression (crimpon) connectors or soldered wire taps for best performance

TROUBLE SHOOTING ELECTRIC BRAKES


Hydraulic surge brakes are a totally trailer self contained braking system, and therefore all trouble shooting analysis can be concentrated on the trailer to resolve braking problems. However, with electric brakes, both the trailer and tow vehicle contain components integral to the overall electric brake package and therefore trouble shooting the electric brake system can be more complex.
The mechanical operation of electric brakes is fairly simple, if power is available to the magnets, and the magnets are functional. Therefore, we will assume that mechanical problems such as

brakes being out of adjustment
worn shoes
broken springs
worn hub drums, etc.
will be self evident and easily identified for correction.
The majority of problems that occur with electric brakes can be traced to an electrical system problem, and we will concentrate our attention there.

A 12 VDC VOLTAGE TESTER, VOLTMETER, OR TEST LIGHT PIGTAIL WILL BE NEEDED FOR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM TEST.

First, it is essential to isolate the problem area.


TROUBLE SHOOTING TRAILER SIDE
(Question) Is the problem in the trailer or tow vehicle electrical components?

(Answer) Unplug the trailer from the tow vehicle and use a 12 VDC battery with a fuse or circuit breaker, for short circuit protection, to apply full 12 VDC to the pins of the trailer connector connected to the wires going to the wheel magnets. As you connect the 12 VDC source, you should hear a notable click as the magnets are energized and pulled to the flat drum surface. Another method of testing brake magnet operation is to place a compass near the hubdrum.

If, for example, you had brakes on both axles of a tandem trailer, you should go to each hub drum and assure that each brake cluster magnet is operating. If you could hear brake magnet activation on 1 axle and not the other, you may well have a bad wiring connection on the trailer wiring harness.

Conversely, you may hear 3 magnets click but not # 4. Closer inspection may indicate a bad magnet or a bad wire connection at that magnet.

CAUTION: If a short circuit exists in the trailer electrical system, you could receive burns from melting electrical components if you do not use a fuse or circuit breaker for over current protection when connecting the test battery.

If all magnets click aggressively, the trailer electrical system should be in order, if the wire size is large enough to handle voltage drop. NOTE: Be sure that the brake magnet (-) negative wire is the same size as the positive (+) wire and be sure not to connect the negative (-) return wire to the brake backing plate or trailer frame.

The negative must return thru the trailer plug and connect to the tow vehicle negative for optimum system performance. It is also essential that brakes be PARALLEL WIRED not series wired.

TROUBLE SHOOTING TOW VEHICLE SIDE
Now that you've completed tests and repairs on the trailer side of the electric brake package, we can move to the tow vehicle. It is important to note that many times loose connections are responsible for more electric brake problems than any other single item. A loose connection creates a resistance to current flow. As current draw increases, this point of resistance heats up. As a conductor heats up, it becomes more resistant to current flow. And without proper current flow, the magnets do not pull themselves to the flat hub drum surface, and the brakes therefore do not operate proportionally to the controller output signal. Many times the trailer plug connector, attaching the trailer to the tow vehicle electrical system is the loose connection source.
Dash mounted brake controllers, both inertial deceleration type, and power adjust only type, are the controllers most commonly used. They both take brake light (on) sensing signal as the primary control input and if this input is positive (on), the power amplifier in the controller is biased (turned on), at which time, depending on power adjust set point, and/or brake sensing pendulum position, a proportional amplifier power output is sent to the brake magnets.

To test output from the controller, use a voltmeter reading 12VDC at mid scale. Some controllers will not give satisfactory readings with an RMS voltmeter and you will need to use a standard 12 volt bulb pigtail for test.

Testing Battery Input

First test your battery power INPUT tap at the brake controller to assure that you have full 12VDC thru your auto reset circuit breaker and up to the controller.

Testing Manual Over-ride

At the power output tap of the brake controller, connect your voltmeter and operate the MANUAL BYPASS BUTTON on the controller. You should develop full output voltage within 3 or 4 seconds. If you have output voltage here and your brake magnets are not picking up, you should find a loose connection between this point and the previously tested trailer as a problem.



Testing Automatic Operations


On inertial deceleration controllers, set the gain control to it's maximum (aggressive) position, and with power adjust controllers set the output to maximum.

Now with your voltmeter connected to the same power output tap we tested earlier, push the brake pedal down and operate the tow vehicle brake lights. Power output voltage should go to maximum. If it does not, check to be sure that brake light sensing voltage is available at the proper tap of the brake controller.

If you have battery input power available, and you have brake light sensing signal available, but you have no output power, the problem should be internal to the controller and will require repair (contact the manufacturer for recommendations) or replacement.


I don't know if this will help anybody but I'll put it here anyhow. More can be read at: http://www.championtrailers.com/brkart.html
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:07 PM   #51
WildBigBill
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Had Ford check controller and worked with technician after dealer said ther was only 2 volts on brakes with their tester. Come to finout when truck is tested there is suppose to between 1and 2 volts with the controller full on when at rest. Went back to dealer and with more trouble shooting they agreed the trailer was the problem and will fix it tomorrow. I twas a long day {12 hours} will let you know what they find.
The ford dealer also hooked up a meter and we went for a ride to prove it was working properly when the fault was clear. The dealer couled see the difference when we pluged in a new monty and got perfect readings.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:58 AM   #52
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They called a little while ago and said they found a bad wire in the left rear tire, the clip was tight but the wire was rubing and bare! It must be from the magnet, because they are installing a new magnet and will show me the bad one when I pick it up. It will be great to have my brakes back!!!!!!
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:57 AM   #53
Montana_1240
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Bill,

Great deal!

They did check all the rest of them, too, right?

Steve
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Old 07-27-2005, 05:02 AM   #54
WildBigBill
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I miss spoke it was the right rear, I don't know if they checked them all, I would hope so.
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Old 08-01-2005, 03:30 PM   #55
Montana_1240
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Well, we went to Town & Country RV in Clyde, OH, today. Didn’t get a chance to talk to Bill. I think the service guy’s name was Virgil, but I’m not sure. He was a bit standoffish.

He started by looking at the truck for a problem. When I told him no Ford dealer’s checked the truck, because they blame the trailer, and that most of the problems seem to be in the trailer’s wheels, he reluctantly said he’d take the Monty’s wheels off.

We left for a while, (he had moved it to the shop, and didn’t seem happy to have me standing around,) we stopped back to see him putting the left rear tire back on, complaining about the amount of grease it had in the hub, for starters. I asked him if he’d make sure the brakes were adjusted when he was through, he looked at me strangely, and I think he said he doesn’t do that. (Bear in mind my hearing stinks, and the shop was a bit noisy. I just didn’t press it.)

Since we had some time on our hands, we drove up to Sandusky, and there we went to Cedar Point for a look at the scenery. Got a Voice Mail message saying it was ready, an hour and a half after they started! But they also said they couldn’t find any problem.

They did move the left side fender fare back a bit, as I had asked, since it was installed too far forward, and was rubbing on the front tire when I went over big bumps.

We drove by a long route back to Leafy Oak Campgrounds, a nice place, by the way, and didn’t see a single Trailer Disconnect fault. I don’t feel confident with it, yet, of course. But it would have come on in that short a drive if whatever was bugging it was still the same. It had been going nuts halfway to T & C.

We’re headed toward Pennsylvania and New York, tomorrow. I’ll know, probably before we park for the night, if it’s still a problem. At that point, I’m going to Ford, with the T & C paperwork, showing that they had checked the trailer. It may take us going back to the place I bought it, (both truck and trailer,) to get this settled, at this rate. But if it isn’t fixed, I don’t think I need to be hill climbing to the Reno Rally. And that will really and truly irritate us!

I’ll update this as I get new info.

Steve
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Old 08-02-2005, 05:38 AM   #56
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FYI..When you get the trailer disconnects /error msg's that does not necessarily mean that you have NO brakes at all. In my case I had all my lights/signals and it FELT like I had all my brakes..However the problem was in ONE hub were the wires to the the electric brakes on that wheel had broken off so that wheel only was not braking.I had three wheels worth of brakes.To me the good news was that the TBC caught the problem.At first I began to panic and said ye gods we have no camper brakes .Sent Helen out side and locked up the brakes...3 wheels stopped..1 did not/// so aside from the annoying ding,ding,ding the chances are you have most of your brakes and can stop OK..would check it out to make sure just to ease your mind... We will be going to T&C in a few days..will pry a little on your problem without mentioning any names..Advise us if you still have the problem or if it mysteriously repaired itself.
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Old 08-02-2005, 08:36 AM   #57
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Steve and Kim, I hope you can get this sorted out and get to Reno. We'd sure like to see you folks again.
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:19 AM   #58
WildBigBill
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You were lucky that the wire broke clean and wasn't grounded, leaving your other three brakes working. The broken wire normally is grounded and the controller shuts off the power to all the brakes!
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Old 08-03-2005, 08:48 AM   #59
Native Tex
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How is the best way to talk directly to Ford on this issue? I see where some have done so in the past. This brake thing is a bigger problem than expected.
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:53 PM   #60
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Someone please tell me, are the trailer brakes supposed to lock on manual when not moving? I try to ingage or disingage my slider hitch and my RV moves.
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