Losing Hydraulic Slide Fluid - Montana Owners Club

Gkerlin · 10-02-2012, 10:48 AM

Ok... as I ask this it seems to be a dumb question but nothing ventured noting learned.

Since taking delivery of my new Monty in March (my first one with hydraulic slides) I've lost about 3/4 of a quart of hydraulic fluid.

When I first took delivery I marked the container where the level was for extended and retracted so I could keep track.

this spring and summer we were out for 2 1/2 months and 8,000 miles so they got lots of in and out use.

The last couple of times I extended the slides the large LR slide (last to extend) got slow the last foot or so. I cleaned and dry lube the extension arms and cogs and then retracted the slide and looked at the reservoir and saw I was down quite a bit.

Since 3 of the slides (4 total) have sealed bottoms I can only see the rams on the big slide.

I do not have any visible oil leaks (could be hidden) but there is none visible on the bottoms or on the driveway so my long winded question is:

Do these things lose/consume some oil as a normal part of operation or do I need to get ti to a dealer for some warranty work?

I just filled the reservoir and dry lubed as I said and it now flies in and out like it used to.

BB_TX · 10-02-2012, 11:06 AM

Mine has started leaking a little at one of the hose fittings on backside top of the pump. Didn't notice it until I was checking the battery and noticed a little oil on top of the battery cover. Started looking and there was oil in the tray under the pump and some in the bottom of the front compartment below the battery. Did not appear to be a significant amount, but the reservoir was down to a little less than half with the slides in. Added about a half quart.
Have not repaired it yet as it appears to be a very slow leak. But will have to look into what exactly is leaking and what I need to do to stop it.

c214dick · 10-02-2012, 11:06 AM

I have had an ongoing problem with leaks both hidden and visible. I don't think you will consume that much fluid w/o having a leak somewhere. I have experienced leaking connections and ruptured hoses. It may not show up where you park it but I bet if you pulled the bottom off your trailer you would find liquid somewhere. I have been communicating with Keystone and Lippert regarding my problem. The latest is an invitation from Lippert to bring my rig into their service center when we get back in the Spring. If you're still under warranty you should contact your dealer. Good luck.

Ed. Bill try checking the hose connections in your front compartment. If a fitting is weeping fluid you may not see it but can feel it. That little bit of fluid will travel down the hose and drip on to your battery cover. If you try to tighten the fitting it may help but odds are the fitting needs replacement. I took my rig to a hose company who cut off the original fittings and replaced them with a better crimped fitting.

Gkerlin · 10-02-2012, 11:27 AM

I'll have to look around the back sides of my pump. I have not looked that closely. Will also look behind the valves on the outside control center.

I assume that from the valves it must be a separate line to each slide. Those with 2 rams I guess have some sort of Y connecter where the line branches to either ram.

I can see 3 of the 4 slides and they look clean at least on the outside but I can't see the inner ends without removing the bottom.

I guess I'll run them in and out a bunch first - pay close attention to levels - then contact the dealer.

Ozz · 10-02-2012, 02:39 PM

It has to be leaking fluid under the belly, probably a loose connection, outaside chance of a cracked fitting. The seals in the slide tubes can leak, but if you cleaned them, you would have see a leak. If not the pump area, the bottom.
Sorry that is happening to you.

dieselguy · 10-02-2012, 03:26 PM

Expanding on what has already been said ... fluid doesn't disappear in closed hydraulic systems ... you have a leak. I'd venture to say it's pooling in the center of your underbelly somewhere. If you look at the corrugated plastic belly pan ... you'll notice it has somewhat of a bow towards the middle ... more so in the summer as it expands from the summer temps. Either push up on the pan and wait a few minutes for fluid to drip out either side or remove a few screws and drop one of the sides down so you can take a look. Depending on the model, there are not dedicated lines to each slide cylinder ... some have t's to connect several slides to one line ... crappy design, but the cheapest to build. The bedroom slide is easy to check ... remove the plywood under the bed ... you'll see the cylinder and the two lines connected to it. The pump area is relatively easy to check as is easliy viewed in the front storage compartment. The connections on the shut off valves are also easy to view. It takes quite bit to chafe a reinforced hydraulic hose to the point it fails ... I'd bet you have bad o-ring on one of the cylinder fittings, loose or cracked fitting, bad crimp on one of the lines, or possibly a leaking seal on the rod end of the cylinder. The seal would be my last guess as they usually fail with a gush of fluid every time you cycle the slides. If you see fluid dripping from one of the fittings aside from tightening the nut on the line itself, try tightening the nut directly above where the fitting screws into the cylinder ... it and the washer compress the oring for the seal. At least on my last 2 rigs ... the fittings are not pipe thread ... they are straight thread with orings to accomplish the seal. Or ... disregard my dissertation and take it to your dealer ... Ha!

PSFORD99 · 10-02-2012, 06:36 PM

Stumbled upon a small leak, on the kitchen slide hoses, probably had been leaking since new , it finally leaked enough to wet the outside of the underbelly. I noticed it checking torque on the u-bolts. Pulled the underbelly panel, and had a loose fitting, tightened it ,and have not had a leak since. I guess like they say a little oil goes a long ways, never have had to add any yet.

Gkerlin · 10-03-2012, 01:07 AM

Good info - thanks everyone. I really didn't think it should lose fluid but If I had a bunch of replies and everyone said that they did then I would put additional fluid into my bag of tricks.

I'm going to do a bit of troubleshooting. If its something that I can find and fix easily great. If not I'd prefer to bring it to the dealer and tell them what the problem is rather than have them look for it... you know how that can go.

Its under warranty so I don't want to get my hands TOO dirty.

MIMF · 10-03-2012, 02:42 AM

Greg, if you do end up adding fluid to the pump reservoir, use automatic transmission fluid. On the front of the bottle it should say "Dexron-Dexron III/Mercon-Mercon 5". It will be red in color as compared to what may already be in the reservoir. It does not matter, pour it in anyway. The red is only a dye to help the fluid be more visible. Walmart usually has the best price on ATF. It does not have to be high priced name brand fluid.

Hope you can find the source of the leak and get it repaired easily.

Gkerlin · 10-03-2012, 03:17 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MIMF

Greg, if you do end up adding fluid to the pump reservoir, use automatic transmission fluid. On the front of the bottle it should say "Dexron-Dexron III/Mercon-Mercon 5". It will be red in color as compared to what may already be in the reservoir. It does not matter, pour it in anyway. The red is only a dye to help the fluid be more visible. Walmart usually has the best price on ATF. It does not have to be high priced name brand fluid.

Hope you can find the source of the leak and get it repaired easily.

thanks.. I've already added some Mercon 5

My nearest Keystone dealer is 1.5hrs away and the nearest Montana Dealer is almost 3hrs... I hope I can fix it too. I'll play with it later today and let everyone know how it turns out.

Gkerlin · 10-03-2012, 06:47 AM

Well - I went out to the rig.... stuck my head under the first slide - the living room fireplace - and immediately could see the rubber seal around the piston was deformed and covered with dirt (from the oil attracting)

I looked at another to see the difference and sure enough that fireplace slide piston is shot. I cleaned it - ran it in and out and could see some new fluid appear around the face. Then I shined a light inside the hole in the frame that it passes thru and sure enough I could see a puddle of fluid in the center of the belly.

But wait - it really gets better....

I bought it at Camping World in Charleston, SC (6hrs from me) Knowing that the nearest Camping World is 3 hrs from here I contact Keystone to try and find a closer "authorized" service center. They give me 3 names. Two I immediately take off the list because I know their reputations from friends... That leaves me with Crisp RV in Chocowinity, NC. I know they have a decent reputation and are about 90 minutes from here - so I call them and get connected to Greg Crisp the Service Manager (and part owner I assume).

I explain the whole I have a 2012 Keystone Montana that I bought at Camping World in Charleston, SC etc etc... Explain what I've found and tell them I'd like to schedule a time to bring it in for a warranty repair. Mr. Crisp replies that he will not do any warranty work (even though he's a Keystone Dealer) on any unit that was purchased from a Camping World. He then goes into this tirade about how Camping World is trying to put the independent dealer out of business, that they have unethical business practices etc.

When he finally stopped ranting long enough for me to get a word in I politely mention that it's a shame that they are going to make a customer pay the price for a dispute that he is having with Camping World. By this time I've already decided that even if he changed his mind I wouldn't get the work done there for fear of what he might do to my rig.

He went back into his rant telling me that now that I got my cheap price at Camping World let's see how I like their service. He continues about how Camping World is the Evil Empire (my words) and again when he stopped long enough I mentioned that I was going to contact Keystone and let them know that a dealer was refusing to perform Warranty work.... at which point he said "have a nice day" and hung up on me.

I was never impolite and really... Besides explaining my situation initially I only got to utter two sentences.

WTF?

So now I have an appointment a week from now to drag it 3hrs away to Camping World outside of Raleigh, NC.. The folks there said that they hope I'm not in a rush as when they look at it they then have to get keystone to approve it and by the time that happens another week has gone by so expect them to have it abut 3 weeks. Meaning it will be a month from now till I can get it back... I guess no trip to the mountains this year to see the leaves.

I never had any warranty work done on my last rig.... Is this normal?

It sure isn't like taking my Ford in for service that's for sure.

I think I need to move to a new state!

c214dick · 10-03-2012, 07:59 AM

At least you found the problem. Camping World is what it is and for me will never have the reputation of a dealer. I go there for something to do and not much more, kind of like WalMart. Good luck in finding a better state. They don't exist.

Gkerlin · 10-03-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by c214dick

Camping World is what it is and for me will never have the reputation of a dealer.

At least Camping World will work on my 5'vr. The dealer refused.

Plus a lot of these camping worlds are really independent dealers who just took on the franchise name.

MIMF · 10-03-2012, 08:48 AM

Greg, how far do you live from Marion, NC? Tom Johnson RV Center is there and handles some of the Keystone products but, not the Montana line. I hope that is not one of the dealers you had to cross off the list to begin with.

Gkerlin · 10-03-2012, 08:59 AM

Marion is a good 5+hrs from here I'd say. I live right smack on the coast. So no - tom Johnson is not one of them.

richfaa · 10-03-2012, 10:50 AM

The OEM hoses are NOT of the highest quality.We had all of our hoses replaced in the 6 + years we had our 06 3400.Make sure you get a quality hose.

c214dick · 10-03-2012, 11:28 AM

Rich makes a good point. The originals are 2200 psi. But being warranty Keystone may not authorize a better replacement.

dieselguy · 10-03-2012, 03:53 PM

See if they will ship the cylinder to you free of charge ... it's a piece of cake to change them out. Count the threads between the lock nuts and transfer that to the new cylinder ... that'll give you a good starting point as far as slide adjustment. The rest is simply dropping as much belly pan as needed, remove and label the hoses, remove the bolt or pin from the far end of the cylinder as well as the fittings. Make sure the cylinders are physically the same length, then swap everything out and reassemble in reverse order ... no thread sealant is required as they are o-ring fittings. Top off the reservoir, cycle the slides 3-4 times as they will self bleed off the air. I realize you'll be doing your own warranty work, but it beats dragging it hundreds of miles and possibly end up with a truely incompentent RV tech.
Make sure you place the cylinder rod nuts near exact as they came off ... DO NOT tighten up the nuts to one another. The cylinders have more stroke than you have slide travel ... you will break something.

MIMF · 10-04-2012, 04:46 AM

OK Greg. Just curious where you are in relation to Tom Johnson. Sorry I wasn't any better help. But yes, make sure team Montana is aware of this issue. It might help you get this repaired after warranty expires if you are unable to find a dealer that can do the repair before warranty expires.

Gkerlin · 10-04-2012, 04:56 AM

I'm probably about 5 hrs or so from Tom Johnson.

I do have an appointment at Camping World (formerly Hawleys RV) near Raleigh (about 2.5hrs) next Thursday.

What was curious about making the appointment at CW was that the Service guy on the phone said after I dropped it off that they would have to go thru this whole warranty approval process with Keystone, then order parts and that could take a week or longer.

When I spoke to Keystone Customer Service they told me a reason to go to a dealer (like CW) was that the process to obtain warranty work is fast whereas if I went to the place I know locally there is a whole process that he would have to go thru. So it sounds like the dealer and Keystone are not quite in sync.

I'd just go to the closer guy but he's booked for the next 4 weeks wereas CW can get me in next week. I want to get this fixed and home (and tested) before we head out to the desert in early December so the sooner I get it worked on the better.

I am tempted to try and fix the darn thing myself but I want them to look at my axle alignment as well so I need to go to a dealer or trailer shop anyway.

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