Leaf Spring Shackle Failure.... Over Weight?

[ratfink11]

If you have had leaf spring shackle failure, have been over weight when it happened? I have weighed my 3400 RL alone on CAT Scales and and with quite alot of things loaded in the 5er I came out to be 12,860 lbs. On some other posts I have seen over 15k! Thanks!

[01RAMer]

Shackles wear fairly quickly. Go to wet bolts and they won't wear as quick.

[ratfink11]

Planning on going with wet bolts in the spring. Any one actually have the hangers for the leaf spring fail and how heavy were you?

[HamRad]

Ratfink11,
In answer to your question about anyone having the hangers fail...... There have been a number of folks who have had them fail. Thankfully most have been without any major damage. Most folks have also been under the max weight.

It appears the shackles and hangers are simply too light for the usage the trailers get put on them.

You can do a search and you will find many pages of discussion regarding these issues. But you should also get a fairly good discussion going here.

Good luck.
HamRad

[Jdrobone]

Art,
What does "fairly quickly" mean? I'll probably have close to 5K on my new 3400RL before I get to the rally in Texas next spring. Also, what kinda bucks are we talking here, parts only, and parts and labor at the rally?
Thanks, Jerry

[stiles watson]

I have replaced my shackles and bushings with the brass bushings and wet bolt kit on 2 different units. I have never been over weight. I had a spring bracket shear off at the side on each side of the I beam, again, being over weight was not the culprit. My failures were totally materials failure, not any kind of abuse or "pilot error". OEM shackles and bushings are weak points of all brands of RV's. However, if you don't keep the wet bolts lubricated, they will fail too. I am told that is why the OEM bushing are nylon. Most RV users don't maintain them well.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by stiles watson

I have replaced my shackles and bushings with the brass bushings and wet bolt kit on 2 different units. I have never been over weight. I had a spring bracket shear off at the side on each side of the I beam, again, being over weight was not the culprit. My failures were totally materials failure, not any kind of abuse or "pilot error". OEM shackles and bushings are weak points of all brands of RV's. However, if you don't keep the wet bolts lubricated, they will fail too. I am told that is why the OEM bushing are nylon. Most RV users don't maintain them well.

That's true, but even if you never lubed them after installing, they would out last those flimsy pieces of nylon by miles and miles.

[stiles watson]

quote:Art,
What does "fairly quickly" mean? I'll probably have close to 5K on my new 3400RL before I get to the rally in Texas next spring. Also, what kinda bucks are we talking here, parts only, and parts and labor at the rally?
Thanks, Jerry

The number of miles on a unit varies. I would be looking to get between 10,000 and 15,000 miles on the OEM Shackles. A few have failed more quickly, but most have gone at least 10-15 thousand. On my new Big Sky, I changed them out at around 10,000 miles after I discovered the broken spring bracket and the delaminated rubber spring in the MOR/ryde (RE) equalizer. The shackles and bolts were showing significant wear, but were not near failure at that point. My guess is that when they start to wear, the process accelerates.

Since I don't know what kind of equalizer you have on your suspension, I would not hazard a guess as to the cost of parts. In my opinion, you want Dexter heavy duty shackles with brass bushings and wet bolts. You can usually buy them directly from Dexter, but distributors usually have them at cheaper prices than Dexter.

[Carl n Susan]

quote:Originally posted by Jdrobone


What does "fairly quickly" mean?...

The answer to your questions seems to be the dreaded "it depends". Some folks have no problems, and other have encountered a failure at 15,000 miles (or more). You can usually observe some oblong wear after 10,000 miles. It is definitely worthwhile to undo the nuts periodically and check how much wear has occurred. Having one separate while traveling tends to ruin your day (or days). Don't ask how I know. I have drug the trailer over 20,000 miles so far and had a few "experiences".

P.S. I am not over weight. I have 9600 lbs. spread over my two 5200 lb. capacity axles.

quote:
I'll probably have close to 5K on my new 3400RL before I get to the rally in Texas next spring. Also, what kinda bucks are we talking here, parts only, and parts and labor at the rally?

First, don't expect Montana, Mor-Ryde, or Dexter to be doing any installation or repairs at the Spring Rally. There are no facilities for that as it will be in a commercial RV park. Montana and the others have facilities in Goshen, where the Fall Rally is held, which does allow them to offer repair services.

Here are some examples of costs for parts and labor for some of the various repairs. Your mileage may vary.

Broken Shackle (on the road repair) - When I broke a shackle in Benson, AZ, a mobile repair guy came the next day and installed a replacement (same light weight POS as the OEM one) for $185 (part was $5).

Wet Bolt and Heavy Duty Shackle Replacement - Here at home in CA, I had the "Wet Bolt with Heavy Duty Shackles" installed by a local trailer repair shop. The parts were under $150 and the labor was 2 hours at their shop rate. The replacement shackles are significantly stouter than the originals and are unlikely to ever wear out even without the wet bolts. Several members have installed the wet bolts and shackles themselves. Not too hard if you have the tools and the inclination (I had neither). IMHO it is not "if" you need to make the change, but "when". I would have preferred to have done it earlier and not experience the failure, but I didn't know then what I do now.

Spring Hanger Bracket - I recently found a broken spring hanger bracket after returning home from a trip. I have no idea when it broke. I suspect it was only a few miles ago, but I can't tell. I made another trip to the trailer repair shop and $85 later (part was $8) it was replaced. I now check every bracket (inside and out) periodically.

This is not a Montana exclusive. Most all the manufacturers utilize the same inexpensive, weak parts and expose you to unexpected failures. Periodic inspections will pay off in the long (or even short) term.

[richfaa]

First if your fully loaded 3400 weighed 12,860 lbs..off the truck..I would try another scale..That sounds like the weight on the axles. I would say your 3400 weighs in at @ 15,775lbs....12,860+ pin weight.. we changed to the wet bolt kit at @10K miles and our shackles were starting to wear. We had the nuts on our shackles come loose and shift the axles causing much damage..... we were over 1K overweight at the time. Note my total axle weight was 12,925lbs..Pin weight was 2915 =15848... I was overweight. Weighed byRVSEF at the fall rally.

[ratfink11]

When I weighed my 3400 it was on CAT Scales, un hitched from my truck. The weight was 12,860 dry, but with all our stuff for a three day trip, clothes, food, etc. inside and in the storage compartment with full propane. Hooked up to my truck with my self, wife, our Golden Retiever, full diesel and 240lbs of fire wood, total was 21,320. For the weight of the fifth wheel do I need to add the pin weight also?

[richfaa]

21,320lbs is the GCVW (gross combined vehicle weight) That is the total weight. 21,320 of the truck and camper and everything in the truck and camper. 21,320 less the dry weight of 12,860 is 8460 which would be the weight of the truck, everything in the truck and everything is the camper..sounds wrong???? You need to weigh the truck loaded and ready to pull alone..then the camper loaded and ready to go alone. and the ruck and camper togethere loaded and ready to pull.

I hope I say this right
Truck with trailer attached( the scales are on each of the trailer axles. This is the total axle load of the trailer with the truck attached.

Trailer alone ready to tow. Scales are on each trailer axle.This is the total axle load of the trailer..without the truck attached..

truck alone ready to tow. The scales are on the truck axles..this is the total weight of the truck..without the camper.

Now take the weight of the truck with the trailer and subtract weight of the truck....that is the pin weight.

Add trailer axles load to hitch pin weight and that is trailer gross weight.

add weight of the truck and the gross trailer weight and that is the GCVW in your case the 21,320lbs you saw.

I hope said that right.. It is, to me, very comlicated. I copied off the RVSEF weight sheet for my camper. nHere were my numbers

Weight of truck alone..9250lbs

Truck and trailer attached scales on the trailer.12,375lbs
trailer alone.. scales on the trailer ...12,925
Subtract truck and trailer 12,375 less weight of truck alone 9250= pin weight 2915lbs

Add trailer axle load trailer alone 12,925 plus pin weight 2915lbs = trailer gross weight =15,840 ( mine is listed at 15,500 I was
overweight.
Now add gross trailer weight plus the truck weigh 15,840 + 9250= 25,090lbs that is GCVW the truck is rated at 23,500lbs'' I was over weight. Tire load rating were also over the limit for each wheel on each axle..

Weighing these things can scare the H*** out of you...it did me...

[richfaa]

Carl... thanks for catching the typo. I got dizzy posting that whole thing...... Did anyone else catch it???

[helmick]

The day before we went on a four month trip we were loaded and ready to go so we went to get everything weighed.
Truck 7,140 Lbs.
Montana 3400 13,000 Lbs.
Axels 10,520 Lbs.
Pin 2480 Lbs
Truck & Montana 20,140 Lbs.

[richfaa]

Holy smoke . I need to take a lesson from some of you..Our 3400 weighed over 12K out of the dealers lot.Nothing on board. Our axle load in sept was 12,925lbs..pin 2915lbs. We had it weighed 3 times over a 3 week period.Fall rally, Mor ryde and the service center. By the time we got to the service enter..(last weigh in) and had ditched some stuff..our axle weight had decreased to 12,450lbs and total weight was 15,372 down from 15,840lbs.. Now the 08 Ford is ridiculous 9250lbs ready to tow a full 2110lbs heavier than the GM above...that is over a TON...
How do you guys run so light?????? I may have to jettison the bird.

[exav8tr]

Rich, I notice you listed your trailer gross weight as 15,500. Did Keystone give you a new weight sticker to replace the original when you got the MorRyde IS installed? If so, I would like to get mine redone also as it still reads 13,975. I was so flabbergasted when they weighed me this year at the service center, I forgot to ask about a new sticker.

[Fire5er]

Us weekenders do not weigh what you full timers weigh. Our rig is as follows when we travel for a week of vacation:

Weight of truck alone = 8089.
Truck and trailer attached scales on the trailer = 10,400.
Trailer axels on scales = 10,520.
Subtract truck and trailer 10,400 less weight of truck alone 8089 = pin weight 2311.

Add trailer axle load trailer alone 10,520 plus pin weight 2311 = trailer gross weight = 12,831. The trailer has a CGVR 15,500. So I am good by 2669 lbs.
Add gross trailer weight plus the truck weigh 12,831 + 8089 = 20,920 GCVW and the truck is rated at 23,000 lbs. So I am goob by 2080 lbs for GCVW.

[helmick]

My 2007 3400 gross weight sticker is also 15,500 from the factory.

[Tom S.]

Rich, I don't understand why one 3400 would weigh so much more than another 3400 (using your trailer's brand new weight vs. Helmick's trailer in use weight). Maybe you have a couple slow Montana workers walled up inside somewhere? Do you hear any strange knocking at night?

[richfaa]

Phil... As far as Keystone is concerned we still have 6K axles. We are what the VIN says we are. Stupid but true..

Tom. Was over visiting Ray Lustick this afternoon after his heart attack. He handed me his weight slip from the service center. He has the same 3400 we have but a 07 model.. His weight numbers were within 50lbs of mine in every category. His Dodge truck is 1050lbs lighter than my Ford anvil. Phil's numbers are also similar.. we are all heavier than we thought.Weekenders should be lighter but I never realized how much lighter. My guess is that we long timers and full timers are pushing the limits..if not over???? We are now ..after a serious weight reduction program...within spec's..