New Light Weight Montana's

[jaybird]

I pull a 2006 2955RL Montana fiver with a Dodge 2500 Diesel shortbed. We ran into a NEW 37' Montana Fiver in the light weight series at Sun Lakes this weekend and he was pulling it with his Dodge 2500. He said it pulls great and all he had to do was upgrade the braking system with air bags (What is that). Obviously it perked our interest for an upgrade without needing a new truck. One of many questions would be besides the brake upgrade is-- His truck had a long bed and mine doesn't. Does that matter???

[HOOK]

The Montana High Country is all about weight. They all weigh in under ten thousand pounds. Lighter materials are used, (Helium Technology). As in humans, to loose weight something has to go away. The best way to see the differences between HC and Montana is to go to a dealer that has both in stock, and compare. They are also less expensive, price reflects cost to build. They provide a nice different choice. Look closely at the subtle differences, such as cabinetry materials, and numbers of cabinets. Approximately 2000 pounds is no longer there. The upgrades in the Montana line also set them farther apart. Hope I've helped some.

[jaybird]

Thank You-That was very helpful. Any idea if a shortbed diesel vs a longbed would make any difference? Also, any idea what my camping fiver meant when he said he had to put airbags in his newer Dodge Ram? Obviously something in the braking system I would imagine

[jaybird]

Actually it was a 34' Montana Light Mountaineer not 37'

[jaybird]

I just know it was the "Helium Technology"

[jimcol]

Never heard of airbags effecting braking but I did need to install timbrems to take some of the squat out of the rear end on my 2500 shortbed. Jim

[moutard2]

Your Dodge 2500 diesel will tow just about anything Montana offers IMHO. I towed one of the heaviest models legally within limits all over the place with an F250 gas before upgrading to a 3500 diesel for the added torque. Diesel load specs aren't quite as generous as gas though so it's important to check your truck vs. your trailer specs to make sure that they're well matched. Air bags are an option and not really necessary although I'm sure you'll hear all sorts of other opinions on that subject.

[CampingFools]

We looked at a High Country and it was noticeably cheaper. Have to shed the weight somehow I suppose. They are looking to tap a different market with that series.
As far as the airbags go, that is usually to help carry the weight. Nothing to do with brakes as far as I know. The wheelbase will affect tow ratings so bed length usually comes into play. Check here... http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

[jaybird]

Great info from both Campingfools and Moutard2

Thank You

[Rainer]

I've owned a 2013 High Country 343RL for a couple of months. In that time I've towed it 1500 miles using a 2012 Ford F-250 diesel crew cab short bed. Not a problem at all. In fact, it tows just as easily as my 30' Outback travel trailer.

From what I read, the major weight savings from this Helium Technology is the use of a cable system to move the slide outs. Sure there are other weight saving methods.

But even in the "real world" weight saving technology is now the norm, whether utilizing composites or better manufacturing techniques. Get used to it, the future is here.

[HOOK]

This thread is a little confusing. Montana is the Queen of the fleet, more so with Big Sky Package. The Mountaineer is less expensive, but not light weight. High Country is both light and less expensive. Additionally, HC has fewer floorplans , and are all shorter than the other two lines. Go to Keystone Montana. Com. All models and specs are there for your convenience.

[Hooker]

"Light weight" is often a sales gimmick. I would do the numbers before believing that statement. Also, as has been said here many times, "pulls fine" means nothing because any diesel truck will "pull fine" any Montana...it's the pin weight that is the issue.

[Rainer]

quote:Originally posted by Hooker

"Light weight" is often a sales gimmick. I would do the numbers before believing that statement. Also, as has been said here many times, "pulls fine" means nothing because any diesel truck will "pull fine" any Montana...it's the pin weight that is the issue.

I don't think Montana is using light weight as a sales gimmick, but maybe the name "Helium Technology" is a bit much, at least I'll agree to that.

The High Country 343RL I purchased a couple of months ago is, according to Keystone, the largest 5th wheel under 10K pounds. That was definitely a selling point for us, since less weight means better fuel economy and less wear and tear on our truck.

According to Ford's website out 2012 F-250 6.7l diesel crew-cab 4x4 single rear wheel short-bed truck has a towing capacity of 15,200 lbs, and a bed weight capacity of 3290 lbs. Our 343RL doesn't approach these limits whatsoever.

According to the Montana website, Keystone considers their High Country units as "premium" and their other units as "luxury".

In an earlier post, it was stated that High Country units are shorter than Montana units. That just isn't 100% true. For example the Big Sky 3100RL is listed as 35' 9", while my 343RL is listed as 36' 11".

[BusyCarol]

We liked the High Country and in fact almost bought one. There are ways that Keystone shed the weight that a salesman may not point out. For example, look at the platform holding the master mattress up. On the Montana line it is a piece of plywood but on the High Country it is straps. We tow our Montana with a Ford F250 Diesel and have not had any issues. We do have airbags and the full trailer package.

On a side note I negotiated with the salesman pretty hard when we were thinking of buying the High Country. We just happened to step inside a Montana unit and just liked the finish and overall bells and whistles better than the High Country. However, when my husband first looked at the price tag he wasn't comfortable. Thankfully I am a pretty good negotiator and I worked the salesman down to a price that was only $2000 more than the High Country and included more items (extra battery) etc. I think you would be happy in either unit but you would need to really decide what you are planning on doing with it first (i.e. full-timing, boondocking, etc). That might help narrow your decision down. Best of luck in upgarding to a new unit!

[bigred715]

For one thing, you can't believe what Ford, Chevy or Dodge tells you about pulling weight until you do the numbers. I believe most of those numbers are on stripped down basic trucks as opposed to the heavier 4x4 diesel rigs with no fuel, passengers and tool boxes that we carry. The numbers are far less than what they quote. And DON'T believe a salesman no matter what he says.

[Art-n-Marge]

Length does NOT matter as much when it comes to towing capacity, weight does! Specifically it's GTWR - Gross Trailer Weight Rating and the ACTUAL weight an only be confirmed at a suitable scale and let's hope it's under the GTWR. Then you compare this to the tow vehicle's rating - yes, a long bed and short bed will have different ratings and the irony is that a short bed hitch might weight more if it's a slider and possibly even more than that if it's an autoslider. Calculate 25% of the trailers GTWV can be carried by the TV and you'll be able to tell if you can tow this.

Based on what little I know about the HC there is a good possibility that it would work with your truck, but you've really got to look at the numbers closely!!!

Air bags DO NOT increase your TV's weight capacity (many sales people say otherwise, but they are DEAD wrong), and will make the ride better and help prevent sag (that can turn your headlights into highbeams for oncoming traffic).

As for Air Bag brakes, those are in the same category as Muffler bearings and Trunk fluid. They do not exist and I can only imagine what he was getting at. Such as, to convert a 2500 to a 3500 SRW it's usually the leaf springs (at least for most Fords it is) and then larger wheels and tires to support the new rating. The brakes are usually untouched. However, there's nothing wrong with getting bigger brakes but they are not the weakpoint in your TV's weight rating unless you find out they are. I don't recommend you randomly add upgrades to your truck without learning if they are necessary unless you don't mind spending on improvements that might not help as much.

All this post has done is confuse many of us with the mixture of terms and suppositions. A lot of information has been provided so far in trying to understand what you were told and what's possible, but the best thing to learn here is that MOST salespeople are trying to make a sale (trailers, air bags, brakes, etc.). After you drive their product off the lot, it's YOUR responsibility and problem if it turns out not to be safe.

[HOOK]

Lets compare apples to apples. To compare the longest HC to the shortest Montana is what someone would do to mislead you. Compare short to short , long to long, weight to weight.
IMHO, after towing RVs for forty yrs, and owning a fleet of tow trucks for 30 + yrs, and having turned a 32 ft TT over on I95, and having towed something over a million miles, I'd suggest that you have enough TV to control the load in an emergency or panic situation. That is why I always recommend a dually when towing a large 5er. The stability is far greater. It's not about towing, it's about safety.

[Flymutt]

quote:Originally posted by HOOK

It's not about towing, it's about safety.

Well said!

[Rainer]

quote:Originally posted by Flymutt

Well said!

No, it is about towing.

Because if it wasn't this group wouldn't exist, no one would tow anything, they'd all be holed up in their caves, afraid to do anything.

We have to take risks every day. Hopefully they're calculated risks. One has to weigh the risks against the returns. And I do, but still nothing is guaranteed. Recent headlines more than prove that point.

Sure it takes common sense to operate a truck pulling an RV, but to claim that one must use a dually to tow a fifth wheel isn't really paying attention to the developments in fifth wheels nor trucks.

Things have improved considerably since my dad was towing a big Airstream with a Cadillac.

So, I'll continue to tow a brand new fifth wheel that has a dry weight under 10K pounds with a truck that is rated to tow one over 15K pounds. I'm well within the safety designations of the manufacturers of both products. Add 40 years of driving RV's and I believe I'm within anyone's safety margins as long as I don't exceed my limitations, and as Clint Eastwood said, "A man has to know his limitations. . ."

[1retired06]

I just put Goodyear airbags on my truck, and the salesman emphatically cautioned me they do not increase weight capacity. I already knew that; what airbags do is soften the ride, and more importantly stabilize level of the truck. When I hook up, my bed drops zero, not a single inch which is what I was looking for.