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Old 08-04-2014, 03:33 PM   #1
English Lake Montana
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Plumbing leak

I have a plumbing leak issue with my 2007 Montana 3400RL I need help with. I was flushing out the black water tank with several 3 gallon pails of water because I could not get the light on the tank level to go below two thirds. I have had this issue for a couple of weeks now. After dumping the water down the toilet I checked the reading and it showed the tank to be full. I then opened the black water drain valve and while the tank was draining dumped three more buckets of water down the toilet. The tank reading then dropped to one third full. I then closed the black water drain valve and then drained the grey water tank to help flush out the sewer line.
I then noticed water trickling down under the camper on both sides right behind the rear axle through a seam in the black material that covers the bottom of the camper. The water looked fairly clear but had a slight sewer smell to it. When I pushed up on the sagging black material in the middle it started pouring out from other gaps in the outer edges near the axles. I somehow managed to stay dry. I would say about a couple gallons leaked onto the cement. I left a board underneath to hold up on the middle of the sagging area to help it dry out. The areas in the front and the rear of the camper stayed dry and as far as I could tell had no water collecting above the black material. Where are the black and gray water tanks located in a 3400RL. Is one located near the rear axles where the water collected. Its hard to tell which one the water came out of by looking at the color of the water because of the large amount of fresh water I dumped down the toilet before draining the tank.
One more note. We just purchased the used Montana and have used it three weekends. It is parked on a permanent spot on a lake I own some frontage on. I have a well and septic system it is hooked up to full time. I normally do not close the gray water valve except when draining the black water tank. This last weekend before the leak occurred, I had decided to keep both tanks closed and use the gray water to flush out the mainline after dumping the black tank so it could have been either the gray tank or the black tank leaking. Any tips on how I could trouble shoot the problem. I am probably going to have to go underneath and remove a section of the black material and visually inspect for leaks. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:56 PM   #2
49merc
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Having just replaced my second grey tank in my 2955rl (Shower sink in front-black next and galley tank behind axle) I would open the cover enough to look up in there and see where the water is coming from. I assume you put water in the kitchen sink which in mine is the rear tank and that's probably where your leaking. Have somebody pour water in while your down there looking. The top may be split in which case you'll just see water running down the sides in various places. But that would only be if that tank is full. If you have a crack in the side or along the upper edge you'll be able to spot that easily. I've had both cases.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:01 PM   #3
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If tanks are near empty when the leak occurred it is most likely a cracked joint in an outlet pipe on one of your 3 holding tanks. If the leak happened when tanks were full and the belly sag held it all without showing up as a leak at that time until you added more water, it may be a crack or separation at the upper lip of one of the tanks.

On a side note: You do know that you have two gray water tanks, right?

Also, forget about the black tank gauge ever reading correctly when empty, ...or full for that matter. It is a very common issue due to toilet paper and other "gunk" sticking to the internal tank sensors.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:58 PM   #4
English Lake Montana
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thank you for the info. I was not aware that the kitchen had its own gray water tank. Do both gray water tanks still drain off the same valve? If so what keeps the bath gray water from filling the kitchen gray water tank? The gray water valve I drain is the one next to the black water valve and I am guessing that is the only one. My wife had mentioned the first week we had it that the kitchen area had a musty smell to it and the fact that the storage area (basement) remains dry and all the water is collecting back by the axles tells me that it something in the kitchen area, The first day I am off work I will head up to the lake and start peeling the bottom off.
One other question. Is the foil like insulation the only insulation taht is added with the artic package as far as the bottom goes?
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:15 PM   #5
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Each gray water tank has its own gate valve. The gray tank handle that is next to your black tank handle in the convenience center is the shower and vanity sink gray tank. There is another pull handle for opening the galley(kitchen) gray tank valve, it is below the frame, either between the two tires, or in front of the forward tire on the street side of the 5er.

The washing machine drain is a crapshoot as to where it actually drains to. I have read where some are plumbed to the gray tank and the gray dump valve should be open while using the washer to prevent over filling the tank and causing a flood out of the washing machine, and some are plumbed to the main dump tube, bypassing the gray tank completely.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:12 PM   #6
English Lake Montana
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Ok. So even though this is my second camper, my first was a 30 ft Jayco tt, I should always read the owners manual. I was not aware of the seperate gate valve for the kitchen so that had never been drained since we first used it three weekends ago. I still have to deal with finding the leak though. It probably is on the top of the tank but we won't know until we peel back the belly and check it. Thanks for all the info. I have learned a lot.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:28 AM   #7
Sally Newberry
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My husband & I purchased a used 2015 3402RL at CW on Saturday. We brought it home and immediately started cleaning it. We noticed yesterday a horrible septic smell although we hadn't used the septic at all. My husband checked the gauges and saw that the black tank is reading 2/3 full. We're a little upset, first of all, that CW didn't drain the tanks before letting us take the unit home, who knows how long it sat in their parking lot like that before it was sold to us. We don't plan on camping with it until Labor Day so we have to take it to dump & wash out the tanks tonight to see if the smell goes away - thank god there is a Flying J with a dump station about 20 miles from us. The smell is the worst by the stairs going into the bathroom, right next to the laundry closet. I noticed that the previous owners had velcro around the wooden vents on the stairs, I wonder if they had something covering the vents to try preventing the smell. I'm obviously jumping the gun as we first need to empty and clean out the tanks before assuming something is wrong. We were in the FW all day Saturday cleaning and inspecting but never smelled anything until yesterday afternoon, after the FW was properly leveled.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:58 AM   #8
richfaa
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We had a 06 3400. The gray tank is the first one at the front.The black tank is next and the galley tank is over the rear axle.
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:02 AM   #9
waynemoore
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The smell can be comming from the laundry drain. Run some water in the drain to fill the pea trap. There has been many discussionsre this on here.
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:06 AM   #10
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Ron-- I'm assuming that your 2007 does not have the convenient center where all the water hookups are and the dump handles for the black and shower grey tanks also are. This would be in the newer units from 2011 or so on. Your handles should be in the basement area if I'm not mistaken. The second grey tank handle should be on the drivers side either between the wheel or just in front of the wheels. It's a little difficult to see but it is there. This controls the valve on the galley grey water tank. I have a feeling that is your problem and you just may have a VERY full tank and it could be leaking from around the vent hole but who knows for sure. The only way to find out is to take the belly cover down back there and see if you see any cracks or leaks. At least it isn't the black tank to check that one is nasty! Good luck on your investigation and let us know what you find out.
You can see which one of your tanks is leaking by putting some food coloring in a bucket or two of water and putting it down the stool and the galley sink. Use two different colors of food coloring to be able to tell which tank is leaking IF you do have a leak.
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Old 08-22-2016, 06:35 AM   #11
jcurtis934
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Sally, it is better to start a new post than to use one that is years old. People can then notice it and help. 1- tank gauges never work...doubt your tank has much in it. 2- you have two grey tanks to dump when you do start to use it. 3- the vented stairs covers are open to the pass through storage as well as the whole belly of the rig, which helps to heat the belly when using the furnace and hurts you when you are trying to cool the unit. - make sure your kitchen sink has drain pipes that connect straight into the wall where the vent pipe is located. IF there is also a short pipe that rises and has a threaded fitting on top of it...that is an air admittance valve and they are known to hang open and allow grey tank smells to enter the unit. Hope this helps you. John
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Old 11-14-2016, 02:42 AM   #12
SDVIKINGRON
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Greetings
Have developed a leak under the front part of my 2009 3400rl. I have now concluded the leak leak is coming from the front gray water tank. I assume that whatever insulation that is in there is totally soaked and will need to be replaced. Just was wondering if anyone has taken down the black corrugated plastic under belly and can tell me what to expect? What kind of insulation is in there?
Thanks, Ron
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Old 11-19-2016, 09:14 AM   #13
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Our 2013 3402RL has a sheet of shiny plastic that is about 1/4" thick as the insulation between the tanks and coroplast. We dropped the front once and it is a bit of a trick to get the insulation to go up and around the edges while at the same time holding and screwing the coroplast back on...

I'm not sure that soaking the insulation ruins it as such - although moisture is never good when it is trapped.
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:44 PM   #14
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I have been reading the posts and is it a little bit of help I have a leak underneath my trailer coming from underneath the black cover stuff I’m wondering how do you get the cover stuff off and what I will find in between that and the floor of the trailer so I can inspect the drainage pipes that go to the gray and black water tanks can somebody tell me how to get off this black cover this underneath my trailer I see also the gas line runs on the outside of this black cover does this have to be on done to remove this cover as well please help 2005 keystone Montana
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:37 PM   #15
Carl n Susan
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The black stuff is called coroplast and is attached to the frame using self-tapping screws. Above it a thin plastic like insulating blanket whose name escapes me (reflex?). Remove the screws in the coroplast and you will be able to drop it down. The insulation just lays on the coroplast and is not attached. Undo the brackets for the gas line which should provide enough flex to slide the coroplast out from under it.

Besides the drain lines, you will find: water lines, hydraulic lines, 12V power lines, 120V electrical lines, sawdust, wood scraps and God knows what else that might have been left there.

I doubt you have a leak in one of the ABS sewer lines. Dollars to donuts you have a crack in one of your tanks. Lots of members have had them. Do a Search here for "tank repair" or such to find lots of discussions. Often the only viable solution is to replace the tank.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:45 PM   #16
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Thx one more thing the coroplast is the full length of the trailer do I have to undo all thr screws ?. And remove the complete piece ?
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:12 PM   #17
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Where do I surch for “ tank repair “
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:47 PM   #18
Carl n Susan
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Originally Posted by Ronnyg View Post
Thx one more thing the coroplast is the full length of the trailer do I have to undo all thr screws ?. And remove the complete piece ?
No, start at the front and work towards the rear. You can fold it back as you go or, if you drop enough, it will be laying on the ground.

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Where do I surch for “ tank repair “
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