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Old 03-14-2019, 08:28 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Phil and JoAnn View Post
TLightning, Im not trying to start an argument, but your not giving John accurate information. The 2500 hd and the 3500 hd is EXACTLY the same truck out side of the suspention.
The GM Classic 3500 SRW trucks had bigger 265/75/16 tires and wider steel wheels than the 2500 trucks of that age. The alloy wheels were not available on the 3500 SRW
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:39 PM   #42
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Hi John, Im going to give you my two cents based on the facts that I used to sell GM vehicles and that I own a 2014 non dually 2500 HD. I also tow a 42 ft fifth wheel with it. Everyone telling you they are the same truck as a 3500 are correct. With the diff being the leaf springs. All I did was take it to have one additional set of leaf springs added to increase the box weight capacity. That increased the box capacity to an extra 1000 lbs. Cost me around $400 to do it. That being said, I will also agree that a dually would be safer and more stable to tow with. Also to make a point, I read a comment about a non dually truck having more trouble stopping. This is not totally true as EVERY campers own breaks MUST have the ability to stop its total rated weight all on its own. If you have your trailer brakes set correctly, the trailer brakes will handle its own weight. Go the route with your truck that makes you comfortable. Either way will do the job.

I understand where your coming from and your logic but respectfully take issue with it:

While it may be true that the trailer brakes are supposed to stop the trailer all by themselves, I don't think I have ever seen a trailer brake setup (at least from the factory) that I would trust 100% and for sure you can bet they won't stop the trailer in a reasonable distance. Granted I can see where this may be a little different story with an aftermarket disc brake setup and I am certainly in favor of that improvement!

My arguments in favor of DRW still stand as:

DRW LOADED will logically stop shorter and more stable than an SRW. DRW has a third more rubber on the road and the wider stance is for certain more stable. Yes unloaded in the rain a DRW is more likely to skid when braking at high speed but any reasonable person would gladly trade that for better braking and more control under LOADED conditions.

DRW spreads the LOAD across a third more tires. If there is any real reason to choose the DRW this has to be it. You can say all you want about tow weight ratings but I challenge anyone to argue this one isn't true.

I know everyone's circumstances are not alike and that some folks need the larger camper but can't afford the larger tow vehicle. Someone who has to full time (such as construction workers who stay for extended time frames in other states) buying more camper than their tow vehicle should tow is one thing. BUT I don't think we should advise folks who are new to towing and plan to tow a lot of miles to match an undersized tow vehicle to a large trailer. In fact, it may well open us up to litigation to do so. Lets adopt a policy of advising people what would be safe for certain. If they decide to go with less that's on them.

Hurricane survivor "It isn't just that the wind is blowing, its what the wind is blowing around. Like that Volvo"!
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:37 AM   #43
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As for as brake set-up, I have the disc brakes on my rv and I can stop my truck quicker with the rv than with out. Several on this forum have said the same thing even though it doesn't make a lot of sense as my rv weighs 16,200 loaded and my truck weighs 9900# with my wife and I and an extra 60 gallons of fuel. I have a Ram and they aren't known for good brakes to start with. As for as litigation I don't think the Lawyers really care what we say on here as we all just give our opinions and are not experts on anything. I do like to hear other people's experiences and ideas and have spent a lot of money doing just that but it's up to me to make the right decisions as to what is best for me.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:16 AM   #44
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Jim, I agree... I'm in the DRW camp with our rigs.

Texan, Well said.

" I do like to hear other people's experiences and ideas and have spent a lot of money doing just that but it's up to me to make the right decisions as to what is best for me."
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:59 AM   #45
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I have a 2017 Silverado 2500HD with the Duramax/Allison drive train. When I bought my truck, the same thing in a 3500 dual rear wheel was only about 1200.00, so the expense at purchase doesn't really matter. We pull a High Country 321MK which is rated at 13,400 loaded and I believe the unloaded pin weight is around 1100 lbs. If you are going to pull a Montana with a 3/4 ton pick up, that is what the High Country series is made for. They are a little lighter weight and I think the biggest one weighs in dry at around 12,000 lbs. The full blown Montanas are quite a bit heavier and I would probably not try to pull them without a dually. I pulled an 8000 lb 35' travel trailer with my current TV for a season and it was unstable and unnerving compared to my larger Montana 5th wheel. I'm perfectly comfortable pulling the High Country both in terms of legality and practical safety.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:29 AM   #46
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Hi John,

I purchased a new truck to pull my 3120. The Silverado 2500 we were considering actually had a tire sticker capacity of only 1954 pounds! (see attached photo). This was a new 2019. I was really upset, as all the brochures listed the cargo capacity of around 2500 pounds.

The dealer offered to add an additional spring to the 2500, adding 800 pounds of cargo capacity. Since I was buying new I wanted everything factory with full warrantee, etc. and an official government mandated sticker to prove it.

We ordered a 3500 that had a brochure capacity of 3900 pounds or so, we waited 2 months, but have been very happy. As a point of reference, the tire capacity sticker was also 500 pounds less at 3494 pounds. That still leaves me plenty of room.

I would not have hesitated to add the spring on an used vehicle. You may want to consider that option.

Regards,
JP
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:24 PM   #47
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My goodness am I learning a lot. Thank you all. All said and done, I believe my wife and I are going to be purchasing another Cougar, a 315RLS, that our truck (2003 GMC HD SRW with the Duramax/Allison set-up) is more capable o9f handling safely. The driver also feels more comfortable with this somewhat lighter weight.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:32 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Phil and JoAnn View Post
TLightning, Im not trying to start an argument, but your not giving John accurate information. The 2500 hd and the 3500 hd is EXACTLY the same truck out side of the suspention. The towing capacity on the 3500 is actually a little less than the 2500. Even when they have the 4.10 rear end in them. The reason is the weight diff of the 2 trucks (if you go to the dually). You can check this very easy by picking up one of GM brochures and comparing the towing capacity of the Dually vs the single wheeled trucks. Im not going to talk on the other brands as I don't know them as well. But GM brands I do.
You guys are making this way too hard. You don't need tire capacity, axle size, brake size, rear end ratio, etc. Do NOT use one of the dealer's brochures....they are tailored to the max capacity of a particular truck ie lighter gas engine and are not realistic.

Find the GVWR of the truck. Find the GCWR of the truck. Find the cargo capacity of the truck off the sticker on the door pillar. Use 20% of the trailer's GVWR for the pin weight. Do the math...250/2500s are over weight.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:12 PM   #49
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...There are far too many 3/4 ton trucks pulling fifth wheel campers for all of them to be unsafe, including mine.
Lynwood
Only safe until they have an issue. Then the outcome will not be pretty. Why tempt fate when you know you can mitigate the chances of a catastrophic failure.

You may be lucky and never have an issue... but relatively speaking the odds are against you when you operate out on the edge.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:35 PM   #50
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this is for my 2015 I'm sure the numbers are larger with newer trucks. just posting a FYI from the manual.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:47 PM   #51
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this is for my 2015 I'm sure the numbers are larger with newer trucks. just posting a FYI from the manual.
You are overloaded too, if we are to believe your signature. 3920FB is 2930 lbs pin weight off the factory floor without any dealer installed options. that leaves only 70 lbs for passengers, gear, fuel, the hitch and anything else you carry in or on your truck. does not count any weight you add in the trailer that would also count on the pin.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:54 PM   #52
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You are overloaded too, if we are to believe your signature.
Im actually good but thank you for your concern. Now if I had all my water tanks filled and fully loaded I would be up shits creek
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:01 PM   #53
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its actually 2810 but who's counting LOL. again thanks for your edited concern ! I feel all warm and fuzzy inside
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:17 PM   #54
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The only fuzzy is your math. Perhaps they lowered the 3920FB pin weight from the brochure I'm looking at (I admit it is older but not irrelevant for this discussion) but even if it is 2810 lbs... does not change the facts. So you now have 190 lbs to play with... still fails. The only good you can be is your ego is writing checks your rig cannot cash. You and others towing these large trailers with 2500s are a danger to yourselves and others because "my truck can pull that".... get a grip. Get smart. Don't be a statistic. But you are not listening anyway... your funeral.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:23 PM   #55
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Wow temper temper. I never said anything like that. You got a bad attitude, FYI you have no idea what checks my ego can or can’t write. Hay I do appreciate your concern, and I wish you a great day !!
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:38 PM   #56
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Wow temper temper. I never said anything like that. You got a bad attitude, FYI you have no idea what checks my ego can or canít write. Hay I do appreciate your concern, and I wish you a great day !!
You're right I don't know the extent of your ego, but your response was flippant, my response was merely stating facts. Facts which you apparently choose to ignore. My temper is just fine... I have no reason for be upset with you... nothing you can do at this point will affect me on that level. Have a great day to you too.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:47 PM   #57
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You are a sensitive one lol. Of course I take it serious, I know I’m not overloaded not even close so says the cat scale. Stay frosty
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #58
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:12 AM   #59
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Don't eat that popcorn to fast. We may be here for a while.
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Old 03-17-2019, 09:31 AM   #60
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Don't eat that popcorn to fast. We may be here for a while.
I'm on my third bag. lol
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