F350 Tow Boss - Montana Owners Club

cs413 · 10-18-2005, 04:18 PM

I have an 05 F350 Dually with the Tow Boss Package and 6.0 Diesel. Reading other posts, I know a few others out there have the same tv. My questions are pointed to you. This is my first diesel and am not sure what to expect from the truck. Last weekend was the first time I loaded up the 3650RK and towed with the new F350. It was towing pretty good until some hills. Now, I'm talking towing from Panama City Florida to about 135 miles North into Southern Alabama - they are just hills. My question is - how does your Ford take hills? The problem came when I tried to pass a truck going about 50 and giving it more and more pedal until I was flooring it and.....nothing. I had no power and only got to 55mph until back on level ground. Now I just cannot believe this can be normal for this truck with the tow boss package towing in tow/haul mode the entire time. I was a little disappointed to say the least. Plus there is a small shudder / vibration when taking off from a complete stop until the transmission shifts the first time. Tow/Haul mode also does some strange things to the tranny. Have any of you experienced this? I called my Ford dealer and talked to the diesel mechanic who in turn called the Ford hotline and talked with them. They seem to think a sensor is sensing the truck is overloaded - however that can be. The Monty only weighs around 13000 and pin weight is aroune 3000-3500. The weight capacity on the Ford is 18,100 for towing a fifth wheel and 5200 payload, so I am well under capacity which is the reason I went with this truck. Just wondering if anyone with this truck has had a similar experience. Oh, the Ford dealer wants me to bring the truck in....with the fifth wheel! Ouch! It's about 60 miles away. Oh well - I have a camping trip planned about 10 miles away from there next month, so I guess I'll time it around that. I just want it done right.

Broome101 · 10-19-2005, 01:10 AM

Seems little off to me. I tow a mountain in NC that is a 9% grade going up it pedal to floor I only get to about 58-60 MPH, but that's good enough, but it's a big hill. The shutter you are talking about could be one of two things more than likely the drive shaft is not level under a load and is vibrating. Also Ford had an issue with rear ends not having enough additive in them and caused the same issue, my brother in law had that happen to his this summer on trip to beach in SC, took it in the added some type of grease additive into rear end all is fine. With the tow boss system you have a 4:10 rear end it's only going to pull so fast up a hill due to it's ratio keep that in mind as well, not knowing size of the hill you are pulling.

jackw87 · 10-19-2005, 04:41 AM

The tow Boss package does have the 4.30 gears .One thing that is to make sure you have your RPMs up when you start up the hills once you lose them it takes some time to get them back up. I also have the tow boss and when I go to Indiana from Alabama Ihave to go upa pretty good hill in tenn. and it does fine. I would not want any less of a TV for towing the large trailers

cs413 · 10-19-2005, 07:57 AM

Thanks for your input. One more question to jackw87: How high do you have your tow command set at? I have mine at 9.5 and could probably go to 10.0 which is the max. Seems kind of high to me. I had a Prodigy on old TV and was pretty spoiled. I had it set at 8.7 with the triple boost. I still have it so if there is any real problems with the tow command I can always go back to my Prodigy.

jackw87 · 10-19-2005, 09:16 AM

Curt I run my brake controller at 7.5 it does not lock the brakes up but it stops real good I had a problem with my trailer brakes when I first got the truck the trailer dealer said it was in the controller and ford said it was trailer I finaly pulled the hubs and found that it was the right rear wheel on the trailer thre wire to the magnet was rubbing the spindle and shorting out the size of these trailers makes it hard for the brakes to lock up but the ford controler works better than the prodigy because it works with the abs on the trucklet me know if there is any thing I can help you with. Jack

cs413 · 10-19-2005, 02:04 PM

Thanks Jack. I have read all the posts on the tow command which concerned me before I bought the F350. But thanks to you and all the great advice on this forum, it seems the solution is pretty much the same on the Monty wheels. I know where to start looking if I start having problems. On the rest of the hills I started gaining a little more speed before starting the incline and it worked better. I was just a little worried when I couldn't get around that gas truck that I had been following far too long in traffic. But I got around him on the straightaway before Dothan or it would have taken forever to get through the Dothan traffic. But I'll still take it in and let them look at it and see if there's anything needing adjustment. Worse case, I could have a little more power, and there's nothing wrong with that. I do want them to check that vibration also. I had read the postings before about the vibration also and was hoping I would not have to deal with it, but if that's the worse problem I have I'll be happy. I am also going to ask for a price to install an EGT guage. That seems to be pretty important guage to a lot of people driving diesels on this website. I want to take care of this truck because hopefully it will be the last one I buy for a long time. Thanks again.

William H. Collier · 10-19-2005, 05:05 PM

Curt,
Their is something not right with your 6.0, and the dealer should not have to have your Monty to figure it out. I pull mine with the cruise and tow haul on and have never had a problem, or had to make a run at a hill. If I set the cruise at 65 that is where it stays and only shifts down on a pretty big grade. I have a 3.73 gear which is a harder pull than your 4.30 and our Montys are about the same weight. I hope your dealer can fix your problem for you.
Bill

cs413 · 10-19-2005, 07:46 PM

Thanks Bill - I agree. There is just something not right. That is too much truck not to have more power up a small hill. I'm still debating on pulling the Monty to the dealership. I'm going to talk with them a little more before I go to all that trouble. The only reason I would agree to it is because I'm going to be real close to the dealership next month on our next trip. I'm going to try to take it in earlier and if that doesn't work, then I'll take it in next month with the Monty.

montanared · 10-20-2005, 06:52 AM

cs413, the only difference I see between our rigs is I have a 4.10 rear end, but I have no trouble pulling hills. I just got home from Charlotte and had several pretty steep climbs between there and home. On the flat (or reasonably flat) I tow with cruise control and never have a problem. When I hit hills, I drop out of cruise (but stay in tow/haul mode) so the tranny doesn't downshift too much. RPMs and turbo boost is the issue with me. I try to keep both down to improve fuel economy.

Having said that, when I do have a need to pass, slight pressure on the pedal will push me right up to 70-75 before I know it, even climbing hills. In your case, I think it is the truck.... but probably something simple like a sensor. Modern vehicles have so many sensors that it amazes me they don't get out of whack more often.... but the engineers do a pretty good job at designing systems.

I spent several years working on military aircraft, and troubleshooting something on the ground that happened at altitude and high speed is tough. So is troubleshooting a problem that happens when you tow if you don't have the trailer attached. Like it or not, I think you should take the Monty in when you take the truck. But I think I would insist on doing the driving and have the mechanic ride along. Like you, and most here, I have well over $100K invested in my truck/trailer combo and it means a lot more to me that it does to the mechanic.

cs413 · 10-20-2005, 02:16 PM

Absolutely - I will be doing the driving. Even though insured to the extreme, what a way to ruin a camping trip! I don't know if I can duplicate the hill problem - not many hills in Destin Fl., but they probably have a portable machine they can plug in to the computer and tell what the truck is THINKING and go from there. They will definitely feel the vibration and be able to fix that. I was also told by someone at work who owns an F250 that the accelerator on a diesel does not act the same as on a conventional gas engine. There is less reaction or power if it is floored on a diesel. Didn't make any sense to me. Have you heard anything like that?

William H. Collier · 10-20-2005, 02:44 PM

Curt,
The accelerator is connected by wires and is controlled by computer like everything else on that truck.
Bill

jdurhamsd · 10-23-2005, 07:30 AM

Curt,
We have the same model 05 F350 that you have. With odometer at about 3000 miles, we towed our 3400RL across WV mountains on I-68 on a hot August day. No problems with power. We went up at 60 mph and down at the same speed. However, two types of behavior occurred that concerned us. The gear shifing under load was rougher than we expected, and the cooling fan came on while the gauges we in the mid-positions (the first time we heard it was a fright). So, in Apple Valley, Minnesota we asked the Ford dealership about the problems. The shop manager was anxious to do a test, but we had to bring in the rig. So, we did.

The mechanic attached a laptop computer to a socket above the foot petals, and we went for a ride, up and down the steepest hill in the area. Probably 6% for about 1/4 mile. He as able to observe all power functions and operating variables, and then he surprised me. He took control through his laptop of the truck's cooling fan and varied the speed over its normal range. (At 60% of max, it was almost to loud to talk over in a normal voice.) Conclusions from the laptop readings: The fan noise that we heard in WV was normal and all power functions were in center of expected range. No reason could be seen for rough shifting under load, except perhaps for the on-board computer profile.

But, that was not all. The mechanic said that Ford is constantly monitoring the feedback from owners for regional performance, especially for low lands v. mountains. Ford tests the problems and revises the computer profile in which sensor data is used to adjust power functions, such as turbo pressure and shifting decisions. He called Ford and learned that the profile for our truck had been revised, and he loaded the new profile into our on-board computer. We mentioned that we may tow across the Rockies in CO. The mechanic suggested that we check with a Ford shop in CO to see if we had the current profiles before doing it.

Our suggestions: Find a Ford shop that wants to help, and if the mechanic wants a ride in the rig, give him one.

Best wishes,

cs413 · 10-24-2005, 08:13 AM

Unbelievable - now we have to worry about profiles in our trucks! Have we gotten just a little too technical with our vehicles nowadays?! I'm not so sure I want to take it in right away with only 2700 miles on it. I have been doing a lot of reading on some diesel forums geared to the 6.0 Powerstroke and it seems the service techs like to constantly "flash" the software on the computers on these engines. The problem is once they do reprogram the computer it seems everything that was working good starts giving you problems and you can't reflash back to the old program. So sometimes you end up with more problems than you started out with. So I don't know. The more I read the more confused I get. Hey I know - how about profiling my truck to run from Key West Florida to Alaska. That works for me! Since this was the very first time I pulled anything with the truck, maybe I should give it a couple more chances to see what happens. It hasn't even started to get broke in yet. I also didn't hear any roaring fan noise. I heard something come on, but no where near as loud as you describe and I didn't even have the radio on, but I guess that could be good? Thank you for your post - very interseting, especially about the profiling.
Curt

jackw87 · 10-24-2005, 09:59 AM

Curt I think you have the right idea drive it for a while and see how it does when you don't let a slower vehicle get you slowed down before you lose you RPMs I think that you were new to the Diesel vehicle they have a lot more torque but you have to keep the rpms if you louse them you may as well gear down and start over try it for a while a lot of us have drove them for a while and are used to how they act you may not have a problem that you think you do you have 36'000 to get it right

sreigle · 10-24-2005, 01:40 PM

Our F250 6.0 PSD will celebrate it's first birthday tomorrow by turning 36,000 miles. We're towing a Montana that a CAT scale say weighs 14,360 lbs. It takes the hills beautifully. I normally just leave it in cruise. On 6% grades, for example, it will drop a couple of mph and then will downshift out of OD and climb right back to the cruise setting and stay there until over the hill. On 8% grades it may stay a couple of mph below the cruise setting.

Ours has the 3.73 rear gears. However, the 4.10 gears should do a better job even than the 3.73 at climbing hills. We've never had to worry about keeping rpm up. The PSD has a very wide powerband and pulls strong from anywhere on the dial, in our experience. If you have to slow way down and feel the need you could always pull it into a lower gear manually.

One thing we did find is that the diesel takes more miles to really break in than did our gassers. I suspect you'll find that true on yours, too, and that it will do better and better until it peaks out. Ours seemed to peak on mpg at about 30,000 miles and towing at maybe half that. It still did a terrific job below that mileage, though. Yours sounds like something is definitely not right.

As for being overloaded, I really doubt that's the case. Our GCWR is 23,000 (not tow boss) and our scaled total weight is 22,920. This engine and tranny are used in bigger trucks carrying a lot more weight than you and I are. I don't think the engine and tranny are your limiting factors. Just my opinion but that's covering roughly 25,000 to 30,000 miles of towing with the 6.0 (2003 and 2005 Fords).

cs413 · 10-24-2005, 01:57 PM

I had the cruise on for a while also, but it would downshift goinn uphill and stay there for a while. I didn't know if that was good or bad. I didn't want to damage anything, so I took it out of cruise and didn't use it again. The owners manual is pretty vague on the tranny. Didn't say whether you could or couldn't use cruise while pulling in tow/haul mode. I know I shouldn't baby the diesel, but don't want to cross the line and damage it or the tranny. But it sounds like you guys use the cruise a lot.

sreigle · 10-24-2005, 08:04 PM

Curt, the tow/haul changes the shift pattern and will hold the lower gear longer to avoid any hunting between gears. Hunting generates a lot of heat so it's protecting the transmission. Remember that all the cruise is doing is maneuvering the throttle to hold the speed, same as if you took it off cruise and tried holding the speed. The only time I shut down the cruise is when we're doing a lot of hills and I want to save some fuel by letting the truck slow on the hills.

If you want some idea of how well your Powerstroke should tow that trailer up those hills, email me and I'll provide you some urls for some tests. It will impress you. Your PSD should do far better than apparently it's doing.

You asked about the Tow Command setting. I use 8.0 on ours. The Tow Command is the absolute best and smoothest brake controller I've ever seen. I would never want to go back, even to the Prodigy, as good as that was. This controller has eliminated that jerk when hitting the brakes and starting up again. And it operates very, very smoothly. Just don't set it so high that you're tearing up the trailer brakes.

cs413 · 10-25-2005, 10:19 AM

Thanks Steve. I'll e mail you on my pc as soon as I get hoome from work.

Curt

kegger5769 · 10-25-2005, 10:58 AM

Steve & Curt,
Found you thread very interesting, I too have a '05 F-250 PSD 6.0 w/3.73 rear end pulling a '06 3400RL Monty. I have pulled a few hills in Central CA 6% grade and not using the cruise do about 45-50 uphill. Have not tried it with the cruise on yet. I just turned 3000 on the TV but as the wife say with this truck and Monty "it drives it's self" in comparison to what we had before (15 pass van & 32' trailer). I'm moving a little slow up hill but flat land fine, just waiting for the TV to break in more and it should improve.
Steve which Monty do you have ??
Kim

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