Making new battery cables

[Ozz]

I had to update my battery cables. Needed 4/0
I bought the supplies from my Electrical Supply Warehouse here in K.C.; Western Extralite
I had a nice Hydraulic Crimper, but it doesn't go that big. I had to take one die out of a set of two, and make 1/2 of the set. I cut a piece of steel and welded a bead on it to press into the end connector. Working with the welding cable is tough, the tiny strands 'blossom out' when you strip the insulation. I developed a 'work-around' on that. Strip about 1/4" off the end of the wire, insert it into the connection, then strip the other 1" or so and slide the connector on. A pain, but it worked for me. I had around $220 worth of wire and connections. (Wholesale cost)
I am making a 3 connector terminal block out of my wife's cutting board, steel and a slab of scrap Copper I bought off of ebay. It is on it's way to me.

Slide-show:
http://tinyurl.com/Battery-Wires

[grampachet]

Would solder work instead of crimping? Is there a heat concern?

[Ozz]

quote:Originally posted by grampachet

Would solder work instead of crimping? Is there a heat concern?

I have read that soldering with crimping is not as good-for contact and current transfer reasons. I think corrosion would enter into the equation as well. I am no expert on this at all, but you can see when the crimp is made, there is excellent wire-to-connector contact.

[Lenny K]

I found using this type of cutter http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch...ter-40507.html makes a clean cut and the cable does not fray. I've used it on 2/0 and 4/0 and it cuts the cable easily.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by grampachet

Would solder work instead of crimping? Is there a heat concern?

The problem with trying to solder something that large is getting it hot enough, fast enough to melt the solder and not the insulation on the wire. I'm not sure if solder wouldn't melt should the cables get too hot during use. Perhaps not on trailer batteries, but on a truck battery, especially on a cold morning, the cable might get hot enough to melt the solder and lose the connection. On smaller crimp-on connections, (10 gage and smaller wire) I crimp and solder.

[Irlpguy]

Ozz, I was in the equipment rental business for 30 years, we rented hundreds of welders up to 400 amp gas and electric and had thousands of feet of welding cable. We "always" soldered the ends on the cables. We tinned the cable ends and put solder in the ends and then put them together, when heated and the solder was bubbling out of the end the job was done. The copper ends we used were kind of flared on the end making it easier to get the cable into the ends. Many times we replaced factory "crimped" on ends that had come loose with copper ends and soldering them on.

I think RV owners far exceed the cable size needed when doing their installs on inverters, according to Lincoln Welders 3/0 cable will handle 400 amps at 100% duty cycle up to 250 ft in length combined ground and lead cables, that is 4800 watts of power at 12V. How long would a battery bank last if you hooked a 400 amp load on it. Just saying.

[Ozz]

Lenny, I think that is the pair I have, I will look. The pair I have will not cut 4/0 cable, the big shears will barely cut the cable.
The shears cut it cleanly, no problems UNTIL you peel off the rubber, then 'Boing!' it spreads.

Tom, I agree with you on the solder deal.

Irlpguy, I will stick with the crimp only, you wouldn't have instruments available to measure the difference between crimp and solder. Too many down sides to the solder for me. To each his own.
As far as the 4/0 cables, I went with the experts at Magnum Inverters to size the cable to my Inverter. Read the info on the link:
https://rvsolarstore.com/index.php?r...&product_id=52

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Ozz, I was in the equipment rental business for 30 years, we rented hundreds of welders up to 400 amp gas and electric and had thousands of feet of welding cable. We "always" soldered the ends on the cables. We tinned the cable ends and put solder in the ends and then put them together, when heated and the solder was bubbling out of the end the job was done. The copper ends we used were kind of flared on the end making it easier to get the cable into the ends. Many times we replaced factory "crimped" on ends that had come loose with copper ends and soldering them on.

I think RV owners far exceed the cable size needed when doing their installs on inverters, according to Lincoln Welders 3/0 cable will handle 400 amps at 100% duty cycle up to 250 ft in length combined ground and lead cables, that is 4800 watts of power at 12V. How long would a battery bank last if you hooked a 400 amp load on it. Just saying.

Ed, was that regular solder or silver solder? I've seen guys use silver solder which melts at a higher temp than regular solder on welding cables.

[Irlpguy]

quote: Ed, was that regular solder or silver solder? I've seen guys use silver solder which melts at a higher temp than regular solder on welding cables.

Tom, it was resin core solder, much more expensive than crimping but if done properly using sufficient solder there was 100% contact between the cable and connector, you cannot achieve that with most crimping tools.
I have only used silver solder for stainless steel on such things as boat rails and their mounts and a couple of times to replace handles on a stainless cooking pot.

Ozz I am not arguing with the "experts", I am only saying what we did with huge amounts of welding cable. I don't know how you could possibly know WHAT I had to measure the difference between crimp and solder. These welding machines and their related cables were used in applications on gas plant construction, pipeline welding and ship building in all kinds of weather and exposure. We certainly did not remove a crimped on fitting to replace it with something inferior. This was proven over and over again to be superior in a welding application.

Since you are not welding and your cables will not be subject to the conditions my welding cables were, I expect you will be perfectly fine.

[WaltBennett]

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

I have read that soldering with crimping is not as good-for contact and current transfer reasons. I think corrosion would enter into the equation as well. I am no expert on this at all, but you can see when the crimp is made, there is excellent wire-to-connector contact.

I can guarantee that corrosion won't affect correctly soldered connections. Soldering is simply low temperature welding. The problem is that soldered connections aren't good when physical stress is put on them. The issue with crimped ones is both corrosion potential and that with larger gauge connectors the brass/copper will tend to 'rebound' a bit. I opted to both crimp and solder the cable ends I made for my solar installation. Used a MAP gas torch on the crimped connector & fed rosin core solder into the connector end. The first bit of insulation will melt and the first inch or so of cable will be stiff (from the solder). Wrapped the end with electrical tape and all was good.

[Ozz]

Cool

[rohrmann]

Quite a few electrical supply houses loan out hydraulic compressor tools that have adjustable die heads that should work for what you are doing. I'm sure you frequent some of them, just have to ask.

[Ozz]

I already made them

[Exnavydiver]

After I retired from the Navy I worked at a marine company rigging out new Grady White boats. One of my jobs was rigging battery banks. We had the large hydraulic crimpers but we also soldered all of the connections. So you ended up with a good mechanical connection with the crimp and a good electrical connection with the solder. We kept the insulation from melting by using a torch on the connector and heating it after I crimped it. You could heat the hell out of the connector and it would heat the cable ends. As soon as it stated to draw solder we removed the heat and used the solder to draw off the excess heat. We also had a wet rag handy to speed the process. This worked great with the fine wire welding cables we used..