Disappointing day with Keystone - Page 3 - Montana Owners Club

RMccord · 12-23-2007, 10:02 AM

Open to premium unit recommendations. I would like to have recommendations that are similar weight, cost and if at all possible better care in construction.

mtpocket2 · 12-23-2007, 10:24 AM

Run don't walk away from Keystone! Will you always be worried what else will go wrong and am I safe sitting in here? If I use the fireplace is it going to burn or if I am sleeping will the frame break and I go tumbling to the ground. I have to agree if its junk on the outside its junk on the inside. It's the dealers fault for letting you see it but Keystone shipped the junk. The dealer didn't nail the trim up or put the screws in. Sounds like the order was correct so Keystone messed up there too. I have purchased my last Keystone thanks to non-existent customer service and poor build quality. I have settled in the past but no more. I work too hard for my money to give it up for poor workmanship and Montana's bad customer service. RUN RUN RUN FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ols1932 · 12-23-2007, 10:37 AM

No one is under any obligation to accept a substandard unit. It's your money and you are the one that has to part with it. If it was me I'd tell that dealer goodbye and walk out the door (even if I had made a deposit). If you made a deposit I believe the dealer is obligated to return it if he can't deliver as ordered.

Orv

richfaa · 12-23-2007, 11:31 AM

I fail to understand why it is that many posters here are blaming the dealer for these problems.. True the dealer was negligent for accepting the Rv from Keystone and for presenting the Rv for delivery to the consumer. That is it for the dealer. The poster stated that the Order was submitted correctly. Keystone failed to build the camper the consumer ordered and shipped a sub standard unit... Think of how many things had to go wrong at Keystone for that to happen.Why are many quick to absolve Keystone from any responsibility. Keystone built the unit....not the dealer. If you have not signed the papers of are not out money I would refuse the unit and let it be a issue between the dealer and Keystone. It is simple..You did not get what you ordered.. The dealer apparently submitted the correct order so they would be off the hook as they did not get what they ordered.. It is a 100% keystone problem..give it back to them. Unfortunately because of the nature of the RV industery it could have happened no matter what the brand.

Broome101 · 12-23-2007, 11:59 AM

Rich you are correct dealer should have never taken it if not delivered to them by the sales order, surely they looked at sales order to revive unit that was ordered correctly, prior to calling the buyer to come do PDI and paper work. But according to buyer they did not as the unit was not what he ordered, that gives me pretty good idea this dealer does not know what customer service is, and if this is any representation of how he operates I would want nothing to do the the wrong unit being order or incomplete unit this case or poor dealer very poor dealer representation. What really would get my goat is the dealer telling me go take care of paper work then come back to do PDI then we will fix it. We did pre delivery PDI and good PDI on all units we have ordered that ebbing 3 total and never did first paper work till PDI's were done and issues fixed if any.

mail2us · 12-23-2007, 12:08 PM

Bob,

I have read your postings and the responses to them from some of the great Montana owners on this forum.

Being a fairly new Montana owner (Oct. 2008) I have been very fortunate with our 3400RL and the dealer, thus far.

The advice to you seems overwhelmingly to "walk away".

My observation, not to offend nor be critical is that whatever your decision, you should communicate with Keystone only. A Keystone officer, or owner by name and title; by Certified Letter with a Return Receipt; maybe even with an attorney's eye on the letter. It seems, and I maybe wrong, you are emailing, and dealing with many and that generally is not good. The dealer, the salesman, and others have failed, that is true, but if the manufacturer did not fulfill the order that is the primary entity you should or consider dealing with to include any money back you maybe out of currently.

All this said, I would let it cool down, and move on and away from the dealer completely and put it totally in Keystone's lap.

Anyway, you also may consider in money owed you, the travelling expenses from where...Santa Paula (Oxnard area?) to San Bernadino area? That's a trip not to get product or services contracted for?

Good Luck Bob, I hope you take any of my thoughts as genuine and hope you are able to get to a satisfactory conclusion. Dennis

hazmic · 12-23-2007, 01:16 PM

Was this unit made in Goshen or the west coast? My understanding there is a plant on the West coast.

Imp · 12-23-2007, 02:46 PM

The factory in Pendleton makes Cougars, not Montanas.

Leaseit · 12-23-2007, 05:05 PM

Bob,
When that many problems show up in a New Unit, it makes you wonder what other suprises might be waiting to show up later, and you would end up taking it back to the selling dealer to have problems fixed.
Qwestion is now, after that fisco, "Do you really trust the dealer and his "Crack Service People?".
My take on it would be to stop by the attoney's office and have him send the "Refused Delivrry" Letter to that dealer and blind copy Charles Wade.
Then find another dealer to order a unit from and give Montana one more chance.
Is sure sounds like you have a unit sitting there crying "Lemon Law" and why should you be the one to go though the hassel.

RMccord · 12-23-2007, 05:56 PM

Anyone have any knowledge of or seen the River Canyon 5er's. Supposedly Amish built?

Thoughts

RVWheels · 12-23-2007, 06:48 PM

RMccord,

Detailed discussion of SOB of trailer/s should take place off the MOC Forum.

Thank you,

RVWheels, MOC Admin

Broome101 · 12-24-2007, 01:37 AM

Why off the forum there is a block labeled SOB for just this reason.

richfaa · 12-24-2007, 01:49 AM

Bob... The Rv industry in the Elkhart , Ind area employees large numbers of "Amish" AKA " old world craftsmen". It can be said that Every camper, whatever the price range or brand, is Amish built. Example Newmar was founded and has always been owned by Mennonites, a Amish sect but you will still have similar problems.It is the nature of the RV industry. Tour any plant in the Elkhart area and you will see a mix of many ethnic folks building these things. Being of Sicilian Heritage I could say they are Sicilian built and ifa you dona buy one my Cousin Salvatore Fettachinni will drop by and make you a offer you can't refuse.

RMccord · 12-24-2007, 01:51 AM

Who asked for detail. I asked if anyone had any knowledge or seen one of these units. A simple yes or no or a sure they are nice would suffice. Or maybe similar to Big SKy, etc. I was not chumming for a review.

Broome101 · 12-24-2007, 02:04 AM

Bob, like Rich said most all claim to be built by Amish folks. Some better old world craftsman that others I presume. Any case I have never personally seen the SOB you mentioned. There are several really nice rigs out there by other vendors and the Big Sky full body paint job that have come out really look nice as well.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 12-24-2007, 02:22 AM

Bob,

In a late response of sorts, to your original situation, when we went to see our brand new 2004 unit, in June of 2003, there were over 40 items on our tick list. This was supposed to be pick er up and pay for her day. After over 3.5 hours of us climbing all over, under and inside closets, etc., they had the nerve to ask us if we were ready to sign the papers and hand over the cash. We did exactly what you did, with a strongly worded, read that snottly stated, ARE YOU KIDDING????

We did not sign, we did not pay. We kept inspecting. They finally moved the unit to the back of thier yard, at least they gave us an electrical hookup. SIGH We continued our inspection, which took all of 8 hours.

We did not find hanging doors, or flat tires, but we did find greasy footprints ALL over the roof where the dealer had half (*^%$# installed our MaxAire roof vent.

I freaked out when one of the windows in the livingroom slide would not open, we had lived with a non-functioning window in the previous TT for well over 10 years, same place, behind the couch, and believe me, that ONE item alone would have been enough to reject the unit. Been there, done that, as they say.

It took them a week to fix (?) all this, some repairs/adjustments were done quite well, but Al had to print off directions (internet sure is sweet some days, eh??) for the MaxAire and take the directions TO the dealer and said, I want it installed this way. Period. Ya, they did it.

They also fixed the window, and we have never had another issue with that. They also found the slag that was restricting the opening of those little bedroom windows, again, done very nicely.

Other stuff tho left us rather disenchanted, but that is another story, another thread.

Point is, the dealers have the opportunity to clean up the units before they call you, and the smart ones do. When you come to the dealership all excited and dreaming of a pristine unit and see what you did, or what we did, it does not bode well for customer relations, as in: WE WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER UNIT FROM THAT DEALER!!

Many,NOT ALL, of your objections can be fixed by a dealer or service man who knows what they are doing, and yes, the slide in the storage area also can be installed by a dealer. Some of your objections could be addressed, others would try the patience of a saint.

Understand your angst, hopefully you can get the dealer to "fix" things for you and you will be able to proceed with the purchase of your new unit. If not, go to another dealer, or a SOB, but, as has been pointed out, most of these RV's are built by the same job force, in the same area, with the same vendor parts, the difference Al and I have seen in our MANY MANY plant tours are small, the higher priced units will have a few extra steps done during manufacture and the units may go down the line slower. But, a Dometic frig, is gonna be the same in a $25,000 unit or a $75,000 unit.

We are wishing you the best in this holiday season, sure hate to see anyone as upset as you are.

My take: this dealer is about as dumb as our dealer was! DUHHH

Try to have a peaceful holiday. You WILL work this out in a manner that is best for you and your family.

richfaa · 12-24-2007, 02:47 AM

Bob..There was the notion in your original post "Supposedly Amish built?" that you may have thought these units were built by a all Amish workforce and therefore of a higher quality. Some of us were pointing out that they are all Amish built and who builds them is not a indicator of quality.

ols1932 · 12-24-2007, 03:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by RMccord

Who asked for detail. I asked if anyone had any knowledge or seen one of these units. A simple yes or no or a sure they are nice would suffice. Or maybe similar to Big SKy, etc. I was not chumming for a review.

We're sorry if we offended you. When I read all the posts in answer to your post, I find that everyone is just trying to be of some kind of help. If isn't what you wanted, then please accept our apologies.

Orv

simonsrf · 12-24-2007, 03:09 AM

Orv,
I think RMccord was referring to the comment posted by RV Wheels, not anything that you said.

Emmel · 12-24-2007, 03:35 AM

Bob, first of all, I hope next year starts out better than this one seems to be ending for you!
From what I read here, Keystone did a poor job of sending you what you expected to purchase Saturday. I can't make excuses for them as I wouldn't take delivery of such a bad unit!
However, I also have to put some blame on your dealer for letting you see this unit that they obliviously haven't looked at themselves. When this unit came in, they should have done their own pdi and fixed the items YOU found before you saw them. Then, they should have called you and informed you the gen and second air were missing so you could be ready for what you saw when you got there. Presently working at an RV dealer p/t, these people are NOT busy and if they were a reputable dealer, you would never see this unit! In the long run, it's your money and satisfaction and if you're not happy, then Keystone and the dealer shouldn't be either.
Walk away and find another dealer, either Keystone or an sob, your choice!
And another thing, the old world craftsmanship is the same at every plant we have visited in Goshen, Napanee and the surrounding areas!

You may also like: