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Old 02-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #1
PSFORD99
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Suspension

Keep reading off ,and on about suspension, and frame problems on our Montana Fifth Wheels. So far I have had no problems. My concern and reason for this thread is the stress put on the tires, suspension, and frame when backing or turning sharp which is witnessed by the flex in the tires. I plan on upgrading to a Goodyear G614, with much stiffer sidewall, and less flex in the tire. With that said, something else is going to have to take the flex, that being the suspension,and frame. Any thoughts or concerns about this ?, if those tires are not going to give as much something else is going to have to.
 
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:56 PM   #2
Champ_49
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I agree with you PSFORD99, if it don't flex in the tire it will go to the next weakest point. That being the next link would be the spring hangers that we already know are weak. So now you go to the More Ryde X-Factor fix or equivalent. The spring hangers are definitely weak and under built. Gusset's or bar between is the fix. Problem is, more weight and something that should have been figured in the design. Especially after yrs of the same problem.

Dave
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:58 PM   #3
H. John Kohl
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You make a good point that only time will tell. I now check my spring brackets when I set up at new site. That is all we can do without beefing up everything.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:31 PM   #4
PSFORD99
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Champ_49

I agree with you PSFORD99, if it don't flex in the tire it will go to the next weakest point. That being the next link would be the spring hangers that we already know are weak. So now you go to the More Ryde X-Factor fix or equivalent. The spring hangers are definitely weak and under built. Gusset's or bar between is the fix. Problem is, more weight and something that should have been figured in the design. Especially after yrs of the same problem.

Dave
Well that looks like my next project, just finishing up a stabilizer system similar to the Steadyfast system. I looked at the X factor all they are are braces in between the end hanger brackets, and in the middle on the MorRyde plates for a total of three. They say you can add just the middle which will take a lot of the stress out,but while I am at it I might as well make three of them, and install them all, can't hurt. I won't have to make a two piece system, I will just make them to fit, so there will not be any bolting in the middle of them. Hopefully like you said that will help take the stress that the stiffer sidewall tires are going to put on the suspension, and the frame. My understanding they are also for frame roll.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:34 PM   #5
8e3k0
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On a sharp turn the spring packs will take a certain amount of stress with flex. You will notice this when making a sharp turn where one axle will move over to the side more than the other pending type of ground friction under the tires. Once the springs reach a point where there is no more horizontal flex the shackle hangers must take the stress and will start to tear away from the frame with the excessive sideways motion. On heavy axle systems, the suspension will only allow a certain amount of horizontal movement and then the tire/axle assembly must scoot sideways.
With the type of suspensions that are under the Montanas, it is best to refrain from sharp turns on dry asphalt or concrete surfaces.
This is where pull-thoughs are advantageous in preventing suspension problems on any tandem/triple axle 5th wheels.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:34 AM   #6
richfaa
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Just my Opinion... Under "normal" conditions the OEM suspension will be just fine. These are heavy rigs, all of them and when subjected to extreme stress particularly side to side stress there will be failures. Those hangers are the weak point IMO. There are those of us, like myself, who use these things in a manner again IMO, that they were not designed to be used.
We had our OEM suspension system cut off and replaced with the MOR Ryde IS system. We did not feel comfortable doing 10/12 K miles a year all over the country on some of the worst roads with the OEM system. Alaska was out of the question. Now with the Mor Ryde system we feel OK with the Alaska trip.8e3K0 did a good post above

Just us.. If we were a low end user I would feel OK about the suspension. If more than that the XFactor by Mor Ryde, Wet Bolt and other upgrades would be considered. NOTE... Read the manulas of the suspension and Axles and DO the required Maint.

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Old 02-12-2010, 05:17 AM   #7
PSFORD99
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I agree wet bolts are a must, along with the x-factor or equivilent , I think a alaska trip or any other trip the oem suspension would be fine. Once you brace the hanger brackets ,and brace for frame roll things will stay together. Leaf spring systems have been around for a long time and will go a long ways if properly braced and maintained. Granted things are going to come apart if not built right. I am curious what prevents frame roll on the IS system, does that system have cross braces ?? I would think the stress on the frame is the same.What is the advantage with the IS suspension ?

IMO a suspension beefed up or changed is the answer to prevent problems. In my case I have the means ,and will rebuild so to speak the suspension. After a few thousand miles I will let the forum know the results

As Rich said normal use probably be okay, that is going to change for me, and I don't want problems in the middle of some freeway or road.

Best advice so far for me has been the X-Factor, and IMO the BEST solution for problems with the suspension
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:55 AM   #8
PSFORD99
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Rich, after further review of the IS system I see where they run a cross brace between the sides, same principal as the X-Factor for oem suspension.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:17 AM   #9
richfaa
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Yes.. The IS is a sturdy system but the cost and how you use the camper must be a consideration. That cross member is actually part of the system and not a extra welded on part.
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:43 PM   #10
Champ_49
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I will build my own braces also. Got the JT Stabilzer type built last year. Looks like the bracing is the next move when the 16" of snow goes away. This winter is way to long anymore!!

Dave
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:44 PM   #11
exav8tr
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To add to the IS question, there is a total of 5 inch up and down motion available on each wheel of the IS compared to 3 inch total on the OEM suspension system. Also, no axles to bend or become misaligned. According to MorRyde and Keystone it gives the 6000 lbs axle rating the same as the 7000 lbs axles, although it does not change any on the stated weights officially. While at the Service Center this last Fall, I was told I upgraded my GVW to 15,500 lbs, again, unofficially. I was happy to hear that. The '06 3400 is not a heavy hauler, but I feel safer with the addition of the IS. Another addition I had installed was the disc brake option. I am really happy with these brakes. As Richfaa says, it is not a cheap addition but one that should add years to the longevity of the trailer. Add an air hitch and a MorRyde, or another air type hitch pin, and you should be set for life!!!!!! We will see if this is true or not as we plan on keeping our unit for many years.......
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:15 PM   #12
richfaa
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As Phil states we are upgraded to 7K rating.. unofficially. We are still what the sticker on the side of the 06 3400 says we are as far as Keystone is concerned but we are way out of all warranties. The 06 340 should never have had the 6K axles on it.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:33 PM   #13
indy roadrunner
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Back to the stress caused by tire flex or the lack thereof, one of the things I do especially when backing and jackknifing into a site is when I notice the tires starting to flex, I stop and pull forward a foot or so to "unload" the tires or flexing and continue to back some more. When I am pulling forward and in a tight turn I watch those dual axles and will stop and back up just a little to unload the stress. I know it may seem a pain but it may save some shackle problems later on. I went to a stiffer tire when I got rid of the missions and I knew I would not have the same flex so I just raised my awareness and try to make some allowances.
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:42 AM   #14
Champ_49
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Good move Phil, and a smart one. When you see the stress that you are making, take the time to pull ahead and get rid of that stress.

Dave
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