sewer smell - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 03-16-2007, 04:00 PM

Dean. This is going to sound weird but here goes. As you know we also have the "smell" On our first stop over after leaving Apache Junction when I opened the sewer cap I was greeted by a deluge of slimy gray sludge..it was NOT black tank stuff it was Galley tank sludge. Now we flushed out both galley and gray tank once a week since we have been on the road until they ran clear.I was dumbfounded.. anyhow I left about 1/3 tank of water in the galley tank for the next stop over..when I opened the outer cap (and stood aside) another deluge of slimy sludge,it is almost sand like, complete with food particles. I have filled the galley tank about 1/3 every day and at the end of the day after sloshing around...we get a quart or two of ..sludge. I can then fill the tank with fresh water and flush it and it will flush clear however after sloshing around on the road we get the sludge and junk..still.. We are now in Shreveport our 4th stop over. If you are on the road give that a try.. There is something seriously wrong with the galley tank that it collects junk in nooks and crannies and will not flush out normally//not to mention that the galley shut off valve is not working properly as we ARE greeted with liquid at the dump cap with the galley valve shut..
I am re evaluating my evaluation of the Montana.

richfaa · 03-16-2007, 04:26 PM

It just never stops..Item 21 and 22 are on the "list"of things that broke since we went on the road December 12th 05. We are going to be at the service center for a very long time.We noticed the skirt on the kitchen slide flapping. There are 5 screws holding the skirt to the rest of the plastic.Screw number 1 being the front most screw was gone, screw 2,3 were working their way out, screw 4 was gone screw 5 was ok.They had stripped out of the plastic body panel..look in your rear view mirror you may notice they move around in the wind (3400). Maybe another 100 miles and the skirt may have departed the rest of the camper ..I had to repair that.. The hot water heater now does not work on gas. We used it the entire time (6 weeks) we were in Apache Junction.To day in Shreveport, La...nothing..We also learned more about our sewer smell..It is NOT the black tank..it is the galley. Although we flushed it out once a week.. now after water sloshing around in the tank while on the road we are greeted by a couple of quarts of sludge everytime we remove the outer dump cap. There is something seriously wrong with the galley tank not to mention the galley tank shut off valve does not work properly. We are re evaluating our evaluation of this Montana..

padredw · 03-17-2007, 04:22 AM

Hi Rich, and welcome to the ArkLaTex. Are you just overnight in Shreveport? We are just an hour's drive back into East Texas (20 miles north of Longview).

I have had a bit of trouble with my galley tank valve for some time, and now it is almost impossible to open and close. One of the ways it manifested itself at first was the failure to close all the way (of course, I was not aware of that) and cause the outlet to be full when I opened the outer dump cap. Now that I'm aware, if I really push hard, I can get the valve shut, but then it is extremely difficult to get it open when I dump. I have pulled the little plastic handle off and now have to grasp the rod with both hands and pull. So far I'm just barely been able to get it open.

And, as you have noticed, the galley waste has some of the worst odors. I've tried some of the "treatments" but have not eliminated the problem.

Better stay out of the casinos, or as my neighbors call them "The Boats."!

campbud · 03-17-2007, 05:36 AM

We didnt have any problems with the 2955RL galley tank valve or smell. I would every so often put some chemical in it. When washing dishes I always make sure I have most of the food particle off everything and I leave the drain stopper in when letting water down the drain. I will watch on the new one.

Maybe leaving a little water in the galley tank after each flush is a good idea too.

richfaa · 03-17-2007, 01:07 PM

Well today the hanger bar in the front closet broke off the wall on one end and we have clothing in a heap on the closet floor and the fantastic fan stuck and will not open and the bottom hinge of the right cabinet door over the island by the TV pulled itself out of the wood work. , we went to manual and got the fan opened. It is now a daily ritual when we stop for the day to look the camper over to see what fell off or broke. Three things broke, a record day for failures but they seem to be progressing the longer we travel.The closet will be a easy fix but we are nowhere near a Lowes or Home Depot.The service center will be doing some re enforcing. On Edit..We left for awhile and when we came back we were locked out. The lock on the door handle would not unlock.. I am reaching the limit of my patience with this Montana.

Bill Frisbee · 03-17-2007, 05:37 PM

Rich, reading through the litany of problems you have had with your new Monty is very discouraging. Your experiences only confirm my belief that, even though movable, fifth wheels work best when moved infrequently and left primarily in one location. As you have rightly pointed out in the past, they are designed to be vacation campers. My sense is that efforts to keep fifth wheels within the carrying/towing capacity of available and affordable pick-up trucks while also attempting to satisfy consumer demand for greater space, livability, and luxury have led to quality compromises in addition to the usual litany of human errors during manufacture. While we did not travel often or far in out Monty (we actually took only three trips, the longest being about 500 miles round-trip) we did lose the trailer brakes on the last of those trips (the usual electrical short in the right rear wheel) and experienced our version of the "water leaks in the shower" problem.

My concerns in this regard, our plans to travel more frequently and farther in the years ahead, and my declining enthusiasm for the "set up/tear down" routine involved in camping in a 5er led us to trade it all in for a new motorhome. The deal was finalized last week and both the Monty and Dodge Ram TV were cleaned out and dropped off with the dealer this AM. While we will miss the Monty and will certainly have our share of new and different problems with the MH, at the moment I feel significantly more comfortable and confident that the MH will better serve our needs.

We hope you get your issues with the Monty resolved satisfactorily and that you enjoy many years of trouble-free travel in the future. We hope we cross paths with you and Helen at some point down the road. Your contributions to this forum and to our knowledge have been more significant and extensive than you will ever know.

May the wind be always at your back.

Bill & Ann

richfaa · 03-17-2007, 06:27 PM

I have always said that these are recreational vehicles and designed for recreational camping, not the way many of us use them.This year has been educational for us and is unfortunately proving theory correct. 22 issues since December 12th in about 3500 miles of towing and the frequency of failures is increasing.I would assume that a recreational vehicle is designed to be towed down the road and that would be its normal environment.. therefore failures directly related to towing down the road would not be normal..????All of the 22 issues on our list have been reported by members at one time or another but no one has had that many in that amount of time.What puzzles me is that there are many on this forum that travel as much or far more than we do and for much longer of a time yet none if them have experienced the problems at the frequency that we have.If they had they would surely have shared with the rest of us so that leads me to believe that these issues are with this 3400 only and we have a lemon developing . At this time we have lost confidence in the reliability of this particular Montana.We have not given up. We will be at the service center April 16th and we will see what Keystone can do .I completely understand your decision to go into the MH,,including the unspoken part.

VanMan · 03-17-2007, 08:33 PM

Rich - we had the issue of the galley gray water "surprise" each time I took off the drain cap. It has to do with the long run and not enough slope - must sag a little in the middle (hmmm - a poet and didn't know it). The addition of another valve like
this (it just twists on the bayonet fittings) did the trick and also allows for "sharing" the gray water tank capacities.

richfaa · 03-18-2007, 03:20 AM

We have that valve.Letting water slosh around in the galley tank while traveling is slowly solving the "smell" problem.Sounds like others have had the "surprise" from the gray tank so the not operating properly valve or bend is not peculiar to this Montana . Whatever the fault it is not normnal and will be corrected along with all the other issues if we are to stay with this Montana.

Ozzie · 03-18-2007, 04:20 AM

We also have the long small drain (ours is rear kitchen) in our rig.
What a pain it is to drain too. Very slow and hard to keep clean.
The times when we have to use a dump station and we aren't level it barely drains at all.
Easily the most troublesome of our systems. I backflush often and always travel with some water and cleaner going down the road (as with all tanks).
Sometimes I'd like to hookup a power wash to clean that line out.

ARJ · 03-18-2007, 04:29 AM

I hear that Cedar Creek makes a pretty nice 5th!

Illini Trekker · 03-18-2007, 06:16 AM

As others have used on this site try a cup or two of Borax in each tank with water as you travel should help with the debris in the tank and I would think the smells also.SeeYa

Fire5er · 03-18-2007, 07:19 AM

They also say to put a bag of ice in with the Borax, or Calgon, or soap, etc...

Mrs. CountryGuy · 03-18-2007, 08:31 AM

OK, hate to be a naysayer, etc, but, could someone explain to me, how we are gonna get ice down the kitchen sink, or the bathroom one for that matter, or even the bathtub. I can see where we could get it in the toilet, if you want to spend the $$ to do so, but, I just cannot see getting ice down the kitchen sink.

As far as sludge in the galley tank, as far as we know, we have not had that happen, but we let that tank fill up at least half way or more before dumping, we kinda figure the water pressure from that much liquid keeps the food particles flushed out and the amount of water keeps em from sinking to the bottom (where they can harden and dry into a concrete type consistancy). Trick is not to get SOOOOOOO much water in there and leave it there for a long time so that it does not weigh down the tank pulling it away from the connections, which has been told about here a number of times, causing leaks. It is a fine line between getting and keeping enough water in and too much water in.

We have always had the "rush" of galley water after running down the road, the use of that extra gate is for controling that "rush", and it works quite well for us. Al does not think there is a better way to fix that situation, the run is too long, there is not enough room to allow for a big enough drop in that run to allow a TOTAL dump of fluids. (Ya, I know, it is getting confusin,eh?) Then there is that droop in the middle of the line theory.

All our experiences, everyone has their own.

richfaa · 03-18-2007, 11:59 AM

The borax sounds like a good idea, will give it a try."stuff" is still coming out of the galley tanks after a good sloshing around while going down the road.Apparently there is something different with the plumbing in ths camper that we have not had in any other camper we have owned.We do have that end valve but if the rush of stuff is normal then perhaps a end valve should be provided by Keystone. The galley valve also does not completely close, that has happened within the last week or so.Good thing we have the end valve as for the next week we will be at a FCRV rally at the Greater Gulf states Fairgrounds in Mobile, Al with no sewer hookups and the galley tank would leak all over the ground if we did not have the end cap.I just sent a updated repair list to Tom Brandon at Keystone..we may need more than 1 day. Gosh Carol..it is easy to get ice down the bathroom or kitchen sink..just crush it up and pour it down???

Dean A Van Peursem · 03-18-2007, 04:52 PM

Rich,

Who is Tom Brandon? I would like to have some phone contact with people at Montana other than the phone customer service people. I don't get the impression that those I have talked to are going the extra mile. My fear is they are taking notes and nothing more is happening. I have asked the Dealer in Bend, OR to coordinate with the factory regarding all the warranty items I need taken care of. The dealer in Bend will have 5 days to take care of all items but if they are short of parts that may not be enough time. I have copied both the dealer and the factory with a list of our warranty issues that need repair and asked them to cooordinate. But I don't think anyone has given all that is required a second thought. I'm throwing stuff over the wall and nothing is coming back. Who do I need to talk to to get their attention? Montana doesn't want to get me really worked up on this. I can and will get really agressive if necessary. Then it won't be fun at all for anyone. The dealer personnel even have me worried they have verbally given me confirmation of my appointment April 2, 2007 but they will not respond via email. That tells me they are concerned about having anything in writing. That isn't right and makes me suspicious.

vickir · 03-18-2007, 05:39 PM

That "rush" of water we determined awhile back to be because of a low point in the drain pipe for the galley tank. Running down the road jiggles it out of the low spot and on its way to the dump cap, where it exits when the cap is removed. This "problem" existed in our 2001, 2003, and 2007 Montanas. I've never really looked to find and confirm there is a low spot in that line but that's the only plausible explanation I've ever heard.

We, too, use the extra gate valve to control that flow of water but also to allow the two gray tanks to share capacity. That's helpful when not connected to sewer.

-- Steve

richfaa · 03-18-2007, 06:11 PM

Brandon Tom
Assistant Team Lead
Montana/Mountaineer
Keystone RV Company

Dean, I did get a letter of confirmation for my April 16th appointmnet at the service center as well as a E mail confirmation. I will PM you Tom Brandons E mail address. I just call customer service and ask for him.

richfaa · 03-18-2007, 06:25 PM

I don't know where that "low point" might be unless it is under the under belly where we can not see it. I crawled under the camper this afternoon and the galley pipe is a long, not much of a slope, run from the galley to the dump pipe. My guess is that the stuff is collecting in that pipe because there is not enough slope and running down the road and making turns forces it out. I will find out when at the service center,,However...it is not normal, it was not normal on my other 4 campers and it is not normal on the hitch hiker II parked next to me.But..the foul smell suggest that stuff is collecting in the tank despite our best efforts to prevent that.We note that a lot of folks report the smell issue so again this is not a problem with this 3400 only.We are looking forward to the service center trip.

Dean A Van Peursem · 03-18-2007, 07:04 PM

I emptied the Black tank again except this time I made sure both the galley and grey tank valves were closed. No sewer smell this time. I wonder if the sewer smell we experienced came back through the piping of the kitchen sink rather than the valve.

After following this thread for awhile I no longer leave the grey and galley tank valves open all the time while stationary for long periods of time. We are now adding chemicals to both of these tanks too in hope that any residue that has built up will get flushed out the next time. In the past we have had a very small amount of leakage out the cap when removing it after a few road miles. From following this thread it looks like it could get worse. So I'll probably add the supplementary valve at the cap. I have always leveled the 3400RL before removing the cap so maybe any low spot in the piping is self contained under those conditions and no valve is leaking internally. This forum continues to be a big help. Thanks.

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