Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-23-2017, 10:13 AM   #1
Mosnowman
Seasoned Camper
 
Mosnowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Little Slice of Heaven..Missouri
Posts: 82
M.O.C. #19731
Newbie Truck Tow Capacity Question - Montana 3791RD

Forgive me for asking a question I imagine has been asked before. Mine may be a bit more specific.

Currently own a 2013 Ford F250 Crew Cab...it pulls my Cougar 327RES Fifth Wheel very well.

Looking at buying a Montana 3791RD. Will my F250 be able to pull it? If not would you guys recommend a F350 or a GMC 3500 ? Comparison?

The weight conversation for some reason sounds like a foreign language to me. I just don't get it. I am hoping for opinions on which truck required to pull the Montana. About 10 years out to retirement, and am wanting to buy the tow vehicle now if I need to make a change. Also any other opinions on the 3791RD would be appreciated. Thanks!
Mosnowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 10:50 AM   #2
ExPatNW
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 146
M.O.C. #10319
I have a 2011 F350 6.7PSD SRW. Just purchased a 3790RD. We used to tow a Montana Mountaineer 36' Double bunk. The truck managed the Mountaineer really well. But I am going to switch from my F350 SRW to a F350 DRW because of the pin weight. My truck's sticker max payload weight is 3,000Lbs (its a crew cab, long bed btw with 4x4). When you include people in the truck, I am sure I am now over weight. My concern is what long term damage will occur to the truck carrying more weight in the bed that its designed for. A DRW would solve for this.

So for you - what is the max payload weight on the sticker on your F250? Your 3791RD will likely have a higher pin weight. Sure someone on here knows what their 3791RD/3790RD pin weight is...

Good luck with your new rig.
Chris
ExPatNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 10:53 AM   #3
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,913
M.O.C. #2283
Your 2013 will pull your camper just fine. There will be some that will tell you that you are taking you life and liberty in your own hands. If you get that camper pull it with your present truck and if you would like a new truck then get it.
As for which is the better truck. That is for you to decide. Better for what? Either one will pull that or any other camper. Go drive them both several times, see what you like and don't like. Everybody wonts something different. Your wife might like a color for you the seats, for me it's performance. That's why I drive a 600 horsepower truck. I'll bet you don't care about that. A new truck is a personal decision no one can tell you which is better for you.
Lynwood
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:14 PM   #4
MARK A
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: STAYTON
Posts: 807
M.O.C. #18157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosnowman View Post
Forgive me for asking a question I imagine has been asked before. Mine may be a bit more specific.

Currently own a 2013 Ford F250 Crew Cab...it pulls my Cougar 327RES Fifth Wheel very well.

Looking at buying a Montana 3791RD. Will my F250 be able to pull it? If not would you guys recommend a F350 or a GMC 3500 ? Comparison?

The weight conversation for some reason sounds like a foreign language to me. I just don't get it. I am hoping for opinions on which truck required to pull the Montana. About 10 years out to retirement, and am wanting to buy the tow vehicle now if I need to make a change. Also any other opinions on the 3791RD would be appreciated. Thanks!
Just as MLH said, you will hear how your pickup is undersized and dangerous, but install some air bags or overload spring stack and drive accordingly.

Mark
__________________

2016 3610/2012 F-350 Powerstroke
MARK A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 12:23 PM   #5
twindman
Montana Master
 
twindman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mesa
Posts: 1,557
M.O.C. #5651
Liability in an accident would be the problem. I am about 400 over my bed weight, but well under (1000 lb) on tow capacity. A 350 would solve your problem. I think they have about 1500 lb more capacity, which pushes you to about 4500 bed weight. When you add in people and fuel and hitch, you are back to maybe 3500-3800 which should handle all but the biggest Montanas.
Oh, and I didn't check price on 3500 when I bought because I thought it would be $5000 or more. Turns out it is only 1500-2000. My mistake.
__________________

Tom and Gail
2013 Mountaineer 362
2012 Silverado 2500
twindman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 01:02 PM   #6
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,913
M.O.C. #2283
ExPatMW You are not going to do any damage to your truck. The 250 350 and DRW trucks have the same strength frame. For example, I think there are about 25 frames for the F150 but they are all basically the same frame. The 250 and 350 SRW are the same truck except for the rear springs.
Lynwood
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 06:02 PM   #7
Cheezy1
Established Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: City
Posts: 29
M.O.C. #17779
If you have an accident the first thing attorney's are going to look at is the sticker on your truck that lists maximum payload capacity. If they prove that your trailer pin weight and cargo exceeds the weight on the sticker you will be paying and in some states overweight hauling carries jail time as well. Weight your existing truck with a full tank of gas and all the stuff you will carry on a trip. Then hitch up the 3791RD and drive over a CAT scale and you can find out all you need to know to make the decision. Your truck can pull the weight but not safely or legally. I would go with a 3500 DRW and be safe rather than sorry. Remember an accident doesn't have to be your fault to get you in trouble. A single rear wheel 3500HD Chevy has an 11,500 LB Gross vehicle weight limit. If you buy a loaded LTZ model it will weigh 8500 lbs or so with passengers and fuel and a hitch. That leaves you 3000 lbs for the trailer pin weight. The empty pin weight of the 3791Rd is 2945 lbs. You need the DRW truck!
Cheezy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 06:49 PM   #8
ExPatNW
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 146
M.O.C. #10319
@Lynwood - understand your point about the frames - makes total sense. So why do we have different bed capacities between for example the SRW and DRW? What makes the manufacturer rate them differently?
ExPatNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 07:16 PM   #9
Cheezy1
Established Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: City
Posts: 29
M.O.C. #17779
The tires are rated at 3500 pounds max load and the axle on a SWD truck is rated at 7000 lb. The DRW model has a higher rating because of the combination of two tires on each side increasing the carrying capacity of the axle/truck. The frames and springs have little to do with it once you are over loading the tires/axle. My DRW truck has a 13,200 lb gross vehicle weight and the SRW had an 11,500 lb GVW. You can add helper springs, air bags all you want but it won't increase the vehicle's GVW rating. It will just make it ride level.
Cheezy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 07:33 PM   #10
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,913
M.O.C. #2283
ExPatNW you need to read the J2807 tow ratings, Google it or, tow ratings finally pass the sniff test.
I will give you a couple examples:
The SRW trucks must go from 0-30 in 12 seconds and to 60 in 30 seconds.
The DRW trucks must go from 0-30 in 14 seconds and to 60 in 35 seconds.
They are tested up a grade in Arizona called Davis Dam:
The SRW trucks must maintain 40 MPH and the DRW 35.
In short the DRW trucks are held to a lower standard. Read the standards you will see what I'm talking about because there is a lot more. The braking standard has every thing to do with stopping in a Walmart parking lot and nothing to do with 65 MPH on the interstate.
I think we need standards that are more in line with how people actually pull a load on the highway.
Lynwood
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 08:14 PM   #11
speedster100
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: owen sound
Posts: 405
M.O.C. #17566
Pin weight on my 3790RD is right around the 2800lb mark
speedster100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 08:52 PM   #12
Richard Blackwell
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Indio
Posts: 26
M.O.C. #19705
Send a message via AIM to Richard Blackwell Send a message via MSN to Richard Blackwell
You didn't specify gas or diesel...Ford states 12000lbs (w/3.73 rear end) for gas and 15900lbs (with 3.55 rear end)for diesel...specifying 15-25% of your 5th wheel weight total loaded onto the 5th wheel hitch in the bed of the truck...this is for the F250 Crew 4x4...if yours is a 4x2, add 300lbs for gas engine and 400lbs for diesel. These weights are for 5th wheel load capacity only...TT (or bumper tow) weights or less. Determine the weight of your 5'ver, then look at the spec sticker on your center door pillar of the truck and do the math from there.
__________________
Richard & Judy Blackwell
Indio, Ca.
2014 F350 DRW 4x4 Diesel
2013 3402RL
Richard Blackwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 10:15 AM   #13
MAwolcott
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sanford
Posts: 33
M.O.C. #19237
There are those that will ( and are) say your truck is just fine towing the 3791. We just bought the 3791 in November. I had originally upgraded to the F350SRW, but after doing some extensive research on the pin weight of the fiver, I realized I had only a couple hundred pounds to spare. So I traded that truck in and bought the F350DRW. I used to tow a lighter fifth wheel with a 150 with airbags. Airbags only level the load, they do not increase the amount the suspension can handle. The payload of a 250 really isn't that much, if you are in any doubt, upgrade the truck. Trust me, you will feel much more comfortable going down an 8% grade with the larger truck. As for Chevy or Ford; that's a personal preference.
Now, the 3791...what a great rig! We were just up in Boone over the weekend and unfortunately it rained most of the time we were there. The individual rooms in the 3791 make it feel much more like home and no one was feeling cramped being inside most of the time.
MAwolcott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 10:16 PM   #14
ExPatNW
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Everett
Posts: 146
M.O.C. #10319
@Lynwood - J2807 certainly is an interesting read. Never heard of it before. Interesting that the numbers are less due to absolute engineering and more these "tests".
ExPatNW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 07:35 AM   #15
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,913
M.O.C. #2283
ExPatNW People discuss, advise about tow limits and have never read the standards.
Lynwood
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 08:42 AM   #16
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 19,760
M.O.C. #2839
We stay within the Trucks spec's, all of them. Your choice.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:26 AM   #17
cw3jason
Montana Master
 
cw3jason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Stafford Springs
Posts: 524
M.O.C. #17256
Here is the same type of question with all the same answers.


http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...30#post1061630


The short answer is you will be over your trucks rating. You have to decide what to do with that information.
__________________
Jason & Wendy
2014 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7L PSD
2015 Keystone Montana 3711FL
cw3jason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 12:28 PM   #18
jfaberna
Montana Master
 
jfaberna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Willow Spring, NC
Posts: 911
M.O.C. #13909
I had similar questions about which truck when I bought my Montana. I showed my weight stickers to my State Farm guy and he said that if I had a crash and was not "legal" according to the weight stickers, then I was not covered.

That was all I needed to get the right truck, by DOT weight sticker.
__________________
Jim & Martha Abernathy
2014 Montana 3402RL Level UP, Sailun S637's, TST 507, Renergy 100W solar
2014 Ram 3500 Laramie® 4x2 diesel dually crew-cab 3.73 axle, Reese R20
jfaberna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 12:45 PM   #19
JABURKHOLDER
Montana Fan
 
JABURKHOLDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cuyahoga Falls
Posts: 469
M.O.C. #18572
Without more information about your truck, any advice given is just a guess.
The only thing known right now is that you have a 2013 F250 Crew Cab and you plan to tow a 3791RD. To do the math, is the truck 2wd or 4wd, gas or diesel, what is the axle ratio, what is the GVWR and GCWR and what does the truck weight fully loaded ? (you, spouse, full tank, hitch, tools, etc.)


When I do calculations, I use the GVWR of the RV, in your case 16,960lbs. This gives me a built in safety cushion.


I currently own a 2016 3791RD and tow it with a 2016 F350 dually, diesel, 4x4, crew cab, 4.30 gears, camper package, plow package and high capacity tow package. Plenty of safety cushion. This is not an endorsement or recommendation, it's just my set up.


If you would like to provide the information in question, we can do the math together then you decide what is best for you.


JMHO
__________________
ATC/NAC Jerry A. Burkholder, USN (RET.)

Rule #1. The Chief is always right.
Rule #2. When in doubt, refer to rule #1.
JABURKHOLDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 03:07 PM   #20
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,913
M.O.C. #2283
I ask my Allstate agent if I was covered if I was covered if I was overweight. Which I'm not. He called Allstate "Yes you are covered"is what Allstate said. Additionally he said they can't deny coverage if they insure you. For instance if you are speeding, run a stop sigh a red light. They can't choose when to cover you or they never would.
Lynwood
mlh is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×