Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-13-2017, 04:53 PM   #41
FandHB
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 16
M.O.C. #19671
No trouble. It's 25100.
FandHB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 05:09 PM   #42
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,776
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedster100 View Post
...Sorry to disagree, air bags do increase the cargo carrying capacity of a truck, .....
This statement is totally incorrect! It says right on the packaging that air bags will level the truck but do NOT increase capacity. This is another case of a guy trying to find out the size truck he needs to tow, and getting incorrect formation. Anybody using a 250/2500 series truck with a Montana is over weight.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 08:24 PM   #43
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,139
M.O.C. #11206
FandHB

Now you have the weight numbers you need what is next is going to the scales and see what your TV weighs with everything in it that you intend to carry in the truck, full fuel, passengers, pets and anything else. Then subtract that weight from your GVW rating of 13,900 lbs and that will give your maximum pin weight.

The ratings on the new light duty trucks are much greater than the older ones. Our 2009 3500 DRW is rated for a GCW of 23,500. The new 3500 is rated for a GCW of 30,500.

Your 2016 2500 has a GCW rating 1,600 lbs greater than our 2009 3500 and that is what I expected. I would think you could tow our 2009 3665RE at its full weight of 15,909 lbs.

The real answer will be known when you weight your TV fully loaded without the trailer. The changes made to the TV will increase you weight some of them are added springs and boxing the frame all of which add weight to the TV. The weight GM gave you for your pin or cargo weight is based on a standard number for a production truck and doesn’t take into account the fifth wheel hitch and any other items that are included in you “package” that is everything listed below the line on the window sticker I think labeled additional equipment.

I spent a lot of time on the scales getting ours loaded so we were not over weight. We cannot load our trailer to its GVW rating without exceeding the GCW rating for the TV. I also weigh a couple of times a year these things seem to gain weight with age. LOL

I have pulled by permit 300 times more weight than an 18 wheeler operates at and loads 30 ft wide and 70 ft long and 24 feet high this is a very slow moving vehicle because the power and phone companies had to take down their lines and the local highway department had to take the traffic control (RED) lights down.

You are on the right track just keep it up but I think you are going to find out the 2016 2500 Duramax will pull your trailer and stay within the manufactures limitations.

Now I have a personnel opinion I really like the stability of the DRW but not the $1,200 I just paid for tires. LOL

Phil P
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 01:06 PM   #44
Todd727
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Holly Springs
Posts: 121
M.O.C. #19394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
FandHB

Now you have the weight numbers you need what is next is going to the scales and see what your TV weighs with everything in it that you intend to carry in the truck, full fuel, passengers, pets and anything else. Then subtract that weight from your GVW rating of 13,900 lbs and that will give your maximum pin weight.

The ratings on the new light duty trucks are much greater than the older ones. Our 2009 3500 DRW is rated for a GCW of 23,500. The new 3500 is rated for a GCW of 30,500.

Your 2016 2500 has a GCW rating 1,600 lbs greater than our 2009 3500 and that is what I expected. I would think you could tow our 2009 3665RE at its full weight of 15,909 lbs.

The real answer will be known when you weight your TV fully loaded without the trailer. The changes made to the TV will increase you weight some of them are added springs and boxing the frame all of which add weight to the TV. The weight GM gave you for your pin or cargo weight is based on a standard number for a production truck and doesn’t take into account the fifth wheel hitch and any other items that are included in you “package” that is everything listed below the line on the window sticker I think labeled additional equipment.

I spent a lot of time on the scales getting ours loaded so we were not over weight. We cannot load our trailer to its GVW rating without exceeding the GCW rating for the TV. I also weigh a couple of times a year these things seem to gain weight with age. LOL

I have pulled by permit 300 times more weight than an 18 wheeler operates at and loads 30 ft wide and 70 ft long and 24 feet high this is a very slow moving vehicle because the power and phone companies had to take down their lines and the local highway department had to take the traffic control (RED) lights down.

You are on the right track just keep it up but I think you are going to find out the 2016 2500 Duramax will pull your trailer and stay within the manufactures limitations.

Now I have a personnel opinion I really like the stability of the DRW but not the $1,200 I just paid for tires. LOL

Phil P
His GVW of the truck isn't 13,900. It's 10,000. GM's max pin weight they gave him assumes the truck and all it's contents weigh 6,610.

FandHB, the only thing you can do is weigh your truck, fully loaded for the trip and then subtract that number from 10K. That is how much pin weight you can have, black and white. Divide that number by .2 and that is how much the 5'er can weigh, black and white.

The numbers are very simple, it's just that sometimes folks don't like the answer. The other issue is they try to make the numbers like GCWR, GVWR and max tow rating add up. They don't. They are each individual limits that must be honored.
__________________
2017 3950BR
Todd727 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 07:19 PM   #45
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
A Guy just pulled next to me in a New Montana 3720Rl and towing it with a 2006 GMC 2500 Short bed that was sagging in the rear when he pulled in and I asked him if that truck tows it OK and he says yeah I'm fine it's got a Diesel ,I just bit my lip (hard to do) some folks do not get it
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #46
Razrbk
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Eureka Springs
Posts: 390
M.O.C. #17829
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskyjimmy View Post
A Guy just pulled next to me in a New Montana 3720Rl and towing it with a 2006 GMC 2500 Short bed that was sagging in the rear when he pulled in and I asked him if that truck tows it OK and he says yeah I'm fine it's got a Diesel ,I just bit my lip (hard to do) some folks do not get it
I wouldn't expect him to say otherwise.
Razrbk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 08:59 PM   #47
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
Yep pretty much,just thinking he MIGHT say yeah I was thinking about a bigger rig is in my future but Nope, But he did say he love's his new Monty and No problems to report yet in his 4th trip out
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2017, 09:32 PM   #48
sambam
Montana Master
 
sambam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bridgewater
Posts: 1,187
M.O.C. #13166
Why all the fuss? Just buy a dually! Seriously, some of these 3/4 tons of today are rated higher than my dually. Unless you already have the truck, which it appears you do, why not have more than you need and stop wringing your hands over a few pounds? Everybody that posted here has a point. I, personally, prefer to have more than I need. But, that's not for everybody. Lawsuits and jail time aside, I just want to be safe on the road for my family and for the families around me. I have no doubt your truck will pull the Montana fine, but, how do you feel? Gotta listen to the little man inside (like Kramer once said). I have pulled with both, although not this 5er, and the stability and control of the load is unmatched by a SRW. That doesn't mean you can't and I probably made some enemies here, but Montanas are big, heavy trailers. You'll always find numbers that support your case, and there will always be numbers that argue. Your decision...
__________________

2010 Montana 3455SA, Mor/Ryde pin, wet bolts, TST 507, Progressive HW50C, GY G614
2019 Silverado D/A 3500HD LTZ DRW CC
B&W Companion
sambam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 10:57 AM   #49
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,894
M.O.C. #2283
This reminds me of a benchrest shooting match in Ohio. A half dozen of us was was setting around at my camper. Jim Carmichael was there. If you ever read Outdoor Life you may remember Jim he was the head outdoors writer for Outdoor Life for 40 years. Another friend Dan said he didn't read Outdoor Life, wasn't nothing in it. Jim smiled and ask Did you read _____ article last month.
Dan "no".
Jim still smiling Well what about _____ article the month before.
Dan "no ".
Jim still smiling changed the subject.
If you haven't pulled a camper with a certain truck how do you know how it pulls or handles that camper?
Lynwood
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2017, 02:28 PM   #50
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,776
M.O.C. #7871
Do the numbers...

- Cargo capacity is what is on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's door jam. It is to the nearest one pound. Everything added to the truck once the owner gets it, is deducted from this number.

- Actual tow capacity...GCWR minus the tow vehicle's actual weight when ready to tow.
TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 09:47 AM   #51
Todd727
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Holly Springs
Posts: 121
M.O.C. #19394
I really don't know why people bother to post in these threads wondering if they can tow. Seems like the answer always comes around to the numbers don't matter and "I think it's fine."

One other thing, there is no such thing as 1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1.5 ton anymore. All of the 150/1500, 250/2500, 350/3500 and 450/4500 carry much more cargo than those respective, outdated categories.
__________________
2017 3950BR
Todd727 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 02:03 PM   #52
Bad Moon
Montana Fan
 
Bad Moon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Medford
Posts: 302
M.O.C. #18546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd727 View Post
His GVW of the truck isn't 13,900. It's 10,000. GM's max pin weight they gave him assumes the truck and all it's contents weigh 6,610.

FandHB, the only thing you can do is weigh your truck, fully loaded for the trip and then subtract that number from 10K. That is how much pin weight you can have, black and white. Divide that number by .2 and that is how much the 5'er can weigh, black and white.

The numbers are very simple, it's just that sometimes folks don't like the answer. The other issue is they try to make the numbers like GCWR, GVWR and max tow rating add up. They don't. They are each individual limits that must be honored.
I disagree with your statement in red. This is from Wikipedia, but many other sources say the same thing:
"The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers."

When hitching up the 5th wheel, you must not exceed the GCWR (weight of trailer and TV) , axle ratings of the TV, rated towing capacity, and Tire load rating.

For example, my truck has a GVWR of 9200#, an actual loaded weight of 7900# (without my 5er hitched). The cargo capacity is 9200 - 7900 = 1300#, but that is NOT the maximum kingpin weight capacity (if it was, I wouldn't be able to pull ANY 5th wheel).

My CVWR is 22,000#. 22,000 - 7900 = 14,100# trailer weight, BUT, my maximum trailer weight (per manual) is 13,600# and that is my "do not exceed weight" when I go to the scale. In addition, my Rear Axle Weight Rating is 6084#, so when hitched up, at the scale, that is what limits my pin weight .

When I go to the scale, I weight the front axle, then the rear axle, then the two trailer axles together. The front axle should not exceed the GAWR on the door tag, the rear axle should not exceed the GAWR on the tag, and the trailer axles PLUS the pin weight (rear axle weight difference before and after trailer hitched) should not exceed 13,600#.
__________________
2016 Montana High Country 310RE
2007.5 Chevrolet Silverado HD LTZ CC 4x4 Duramax
Bad Moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 07:30 AM   #53
Todd727
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Holly Springs
Posts: 121
M.O.C. #19394
LOL Bad Moon. The pin weight/tongue weight is load that is placed on the truck and IS part of the GVW.

Wiki can be helpful, but the bold statement is referring to the load on the trailer axles.

As I've said before, it really doesn't matter, people are going to do what they want to do and will find a way to rationalize the numbers. 250/2500 and 350/3500 trucks with the artificial 10K option are the worst trucks to buy for towing because they have the 10000 lb limit to save owners on registration fees.

There are other factors in determining the limit for GVR, including the ability to get the load moving and the ability to stop that load. My truck has a 14K GVW. My front GAWR is 5940 and the rear is 9100. That sums to 15040, so according to you, that's my new limit if I have a trailer attached. and part of the weight is because of the trailer.

Well, heck, the front tires are rated for 3195 each or 6390 total and the four rears together are rated for 11640. So, if I want to follow your numbers and use the least restrictive factors, I can now go up to 18030 as long as 4030 of that comes from the trailer because of what is on Wikipedia.
__________________
2017 3950BR
Todd727 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2017, 01:56 PM   #54
CWSWine
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 63
M.O.C. #18254
Safety is critical when towing an RV Trailer. This training video discusses the importance of understanding a Truck's ratings and how these ratings limit the size of the trailer that can be safely towed. You will be provided the tools and basic understanding needed to assist your endeavor to properly match a truck and trailer, so that you can enjoy RVing safely.

These guys are from RV Safety that have been weight RVs at rallies for over 20 years.

http://rvsafety.com/rv-education/mat...ks-to-trailers
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2017, 09:41 PM   #55
Dusters
Montana Fan
 
Dusters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Lakewood, Wa.
Posts: 144
M.O.C. #19305
The video was very helpful and easy to follow. It helps to take a cellphone picture of the Federal Label for the truck and trailer to play with your numbers. I also had two other items, the specification chart for my truck (owners manual) and current scale weight of the truck. With those in mind the video made a lot more sense.
Dusters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×