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Old 05-31-2008, 06:23 AM   #41
dsprik
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I'm not sure, Grant. I believe - and I could be wrong - that the US has a history of more riots/demonstrations-gone-bad than any other country. For a variety of reasons/causes ranging from abortion to civil rights/race to World Bank policies (when holding their annual meeting in a US city) to riots after championship games (mostly alcohol induced for the latter). And that's not including the 1800's history of US social unrest in the streets.

Food riots are already occurring in other countries. President Bush was so alarmed by what was going around the world, that he asked Congress just a few weeks ago for an emergency aid package in the billions for several countries to try to cut off what he saw as a very serious threat of more food riots overseas and subsequent government destabilizations.

I do think that the chances of this type of social unrest overflowing into US streets, regarding this particular issue (high fuel/food prices), while a low probability, is not entirely out of the question.

My thought is that the 1970's situation (I was an oilfield engineer at the time) is not the same as to today's economic dynamics. I agree that we are a resilient people and we recovered/adapted to that fallout and we will recover/adapt to this - whatever the next two years or so bring. However, I feel we in in totally uncharted waters here.

I totally agree with your position on how to handle these high diesel prices, Grant. We will travel with a similar philosophy.

We have hope and Faith in the best and plan for the worst. I know I sound like a gloom and doom guy. I'm really not. I'm analytical to the point of tears (wife's). Sorry. Just the possibilities I see.
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:27 AM   #42
richfaa
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I do remember the 70's..There was rioting in the streets,people fighting over fuel.They needed it, could not get it. They fought over it. It is worse now..Then it was a artificial shortage now it is a increase in energy that effects everything. Fuel is available folks can not afford to buy it. Just my Opinion... the probability of food riots is high if things continue. Folks who are losing everything looking at folks who have more than they do. Folks who can not feed their families looking at stores full of food. I hope that never happens..but I fear it will.. and I am so dissapointed in our elected officials who seem to be doing nothing. We who are fortunate enough to have will suffer as much as those who do not have..as they will, in order to survive, take it away from us...Ole Rich does not see a bright future..hope I am dead wrong..
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:51 AM   #43
dsprik
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That reminds me, I was watching the local news the other night and the County Sheriff was being interviewed. He seemed quite uneasy. They foresee a huge increase in crime and they are trying to prepare for it. Gas drive offs, grocery thefts, and - one I didn't think about - a big increase in break-ins.

This is a big seasonal tourist area with many wealthy and celebrity summer homes. His major concern was that there are so many drive offs now that they are taking a lot of time away from his officers for other crimes, which are also on the rise. He gave the distinct impression his frustration level was increasing.

Law enforcement officials are the ones in a position to see signs of impending trouble.
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Old 05-31-2008, 07:58 AM   #44
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Not sure it will have a direct effect on us, but???

Ford Motor Company announced a couple of days ago another round of cuts in personal. This time white color. Truck sales DOWN, way DOWN.

ooo, Al is a Ford hourly retiree. HMMMM

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Old 05-31-2008, 08:21 AM   #45
dsprik
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Carol, I'm a MI state retiree and I have a concern about that. MI is not real healthy right now.

The good news is that I (Public School Teachers) am in the same retirement pool as State Police and State Judges. Surely, if something happens, I could just follow along on their coat tails as these legal whizzes quickly resolve any mess the state might try to make of our retirement fund...

MI is a huge tourism state. Nobody just passes through on their way to somewhere else. You have to go to Michigan on purpose - and as a destination. The price of food, camping/lodging and recreation will have a huge effect on the state's revenue - not to mention the small businesses that live or die by their seasonal business. Not good.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:00 AM   #46
c214dick
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I remember the 70s as well. Long lines at the pumps but no rioting up here in Illinois. Sure am glad it was all over in Ohio before I transferred there. I guess I should start on my bomb shelter. Oh yea more scare tactics that didn't materialize.

Remember that we have about 300 million residing in the USA a lot more than in the 70s. I don't know but would speculate that the percentage of theft, based on population, for gas and food is a lot less now than 30 years ago. It might be worth checking out for someone with a lot of time on their hands. Me, I'm too busy getting the 5ver ready for another trip.
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Old 05-31-2008, 10:37 AM   #47
Waynem
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In 1974, late Winter, Early Spring time frame there was a supposed shortage of fuel. Long lines occurred and rationing took place in the form of license plates ending in an odd number could get fuel on an odd numbered day, and even number on an even numbered day. Then it went to you must have less than a half a tank of gas before you could fill up. It also went to a certain amount that you could get. I was in Virgina Beach, VA at the time. At that time I purchased all my gas from a local Shell Station operator. His comment to me was, "Wayne, I can give you all the gas you want, anytime you want it. I don't have a shortage."

Present day seems to be a little different. There is no shortage, but there is a supply and demand situation. The entire world runs on fuel and there are emerging countries that are requiring more and more for their economic growth. Therefore the demand is up and the prices are going to go up with the demand. It is going to take a catastrophic event to bring the prices down (like transportation strikes), or the supply has to go up. I don't see either happening for some time so I'm getting prepared to pay the price, or forgo my travels. I think I'll pay the price for the time being unless it starts taking food off of my table.

Remember the SKI club!

(SKI = Spending Kid's inheritance)

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Old 05-31-2008, 11:42 AM   #48
Mrs. CountryGuy
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SKI

OHHH, yea, lots of us doing that,

I only hope, that our kids love us enough to take us in when we have spent it all, and that we had a grand time spending it, a lot of fun thrown in with the payment of the necessity bills.
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:48 PM   #49
dsprik
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Another interesting sidelight of the hard economic times - cost of fuel, food and the housing crisis...

Abandoned horses
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:59 PM   #50
adelmoll
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I can't help but post an article that I read this week that I believe in 100% and the only way we can change it is at the polls....

As you fill your tank for your next summer trek, consider what stands in the way of a lot of domestic oil development: Congress.

As you fill your gas tank for your next summer trip, ask yourself how gas prices have reached current nosebleed levels. For many, the easy answer is to curse the "greedy" oil companies. Consider for a moment an alternative reason.

Oil is a commodity and therefore is subject to the laws of supply and demand. In the simplest of terms, when demand begins to put pressure on supply, prices go up; simple Econ 101. In a supply-and-demand situation, there are really only two options; lower demand or increase supply. I don't anticipate that the demand for oil will decrease, as Americans love their cars and love to drive. This leaves us with increasing the supply.

I know there are other fuel and energy alternatives, but none are mature enough or as readily accessible as oil and its byproducts at the present time. They may be in the future, but that doesn't help us out at the gas pump today. While research and development of fuel and energy alternatives will and must go forward, the supply of oil in the interim can be increased and America has vast resources that can be tapped into today.

Blocked in D.C.
Investors Business Daily estimates there are 1 trillion barrels of oil trapped in shale in the U.S. and Canada. Retrieving just a 10th of it would quadruple our current oil reserves. There is a pool of oil in the Gulf of Mexico that is estimated to be as large as any in the Middle East. There is an equally large pool believed to be in Alaska.

The Chinese are attempting to tap into the Gulf oil supply by drilling diagonally from Cuba. I wonder what environmental safeguards they are using?

The fact is that there are environmentally safe methods of extracting oil from shale and drilling in both the Gulf and Alaska. Congress, however, continues to block these efforts. Just last week, the Senate voted to block any extraction from shale in Colorado. In essence, they voted to make your trips to the gas station more expensive, to make air travel more expensive, and to make heating your home more expensive.




That's something to think about in an election year.

Another topic: Social Security
Another issue that concerns many Americans these days is the sustainability of major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare. With all of Congress' talk about "saving and preserving" these programs, consider these facts about Social Security:

When Social Security (FICA) was introduced it was promised:

Participation in the program would be completely voluntary.

Participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the program.

The money the participants elected to put into the program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year.

The money the participants put into the independent trust fund rather than into the general operating fund, would be used only to fund Social Security, and no other government program.

Payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.

The millions who have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and who then find they are getting taxed on 85% of the money they gave to the federal government to save for them -- may be interested in the following:

Social Security money has been removed from the trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it.

The income tax deduction for Social Security withholding has been eliminated.

Social Security annuities are now taxed.

Now contrast this with the fact that, after violating the original contract, the Congress passed a 100% retirement benefit for members who have served at least one term.

As President Ford said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

So instead of spending countless hours agonizing over which candidate to pull the lever for in November, you might be better served by asking your representatives and senators this question: Mr. or Mrs. Senator/Congressman: you are making a claim on what I have produced, which is to say you are asking me to serve you. How have you served me?


OOPs, the last topic is off topic but it is too good for me to to delete.
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:47 PM   #51
ole dude
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When its time, get out and vote--send the message to the elected officials, do your job for the voters, not just to benefit yourselves.
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:26 PM   #52
tom41
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Adelmoll, You are right "ON TOPIC" IMO, I agree with you 100%. A very GOOD post!
Tom
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:37 PM   #53
richfaa
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Very good post and very on target.. My concern is that too many of us have our head in the sand and will not accept the reality of what is going on around us and what is happening to our country. I hope we never have to experience what can happen when social order breaks down. I have seen it.. The so called race riots in Ohio in the mid 60'S. Just a part of that was race related..It was folks who did not have taking from those who did.We had to be escorted to our Federal job by the police and National guard. I have never forgotten that experience.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:51 PM   #54
sreigle
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And don't forget to write to each of your Representatives and Senators and let them know how you feel about this. And that you intend to vote for someone who will do something about it.
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:19 PM   #55
Delaine and Lindy
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As for President all three don't have a clue. None want to drill in Anwar, on the coast of Cal or Fla. We have written our Congressmen and Sen Corker did answer. His responce was he voted to drill in Anwar. His was the only answer, he did say we must go after our resources. We keep sending the same ones back each year (WHY) its so easy to find out how their voting. Remember this word Earmarks, do some research and see what these people are doing with our money, yes our money. I am very concerned, never in my 26 years in the Army was I so concerned. Our country runs on Oil, and I really am not interested in what the EPA types say. People in our State are already having problems. All of our small factorys are going or have went to Mexico. We have to do something and not next year. The Oil embargo of the 70's is nothing comparied to what is happening. GBY....
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:11 AM   #56
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Another vote for Adelmoll, right on. If we'd been building nuke plants through the 80's, 90's and now, we would be in much better shape with clean energy. Making Hydrogen takes lots of electricity, that could have come from the nuke plants. Our governments take about 60 cents a gallon. The oil companies take a profit of about 30 cents a gallon. Our government is being paid billions of $ for the oil leases too. Something to think about

Volkswagen has built a new econo box diesel car that gets 75 mpg. It was tested against the Toyota Prius, needless to say the VW won. There are several technogies available today. Why does our govt. sit on their back side and do nothing?
Jerry
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:36 AM   #57
tom41
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This is very interesting reading..kind of tells why America is in this mess..
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/01/6773/
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:04 AM   #58
Okie Guy
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Update...
After spending $180 bucks for diesel and propane to drive 100 miles to the lake we rented a covered storage space for the boat. Now we only have to take 1 pickup to the lake so its still going to cost $250 in diesel. We are saving about $200 for gasoline for the other pickup. I am seriously sick of these fuel prices. On the 10pm news last night they said fuel could reach $6.00 per gallon by the end of the year! I was screaming at the tv and I have written to my legislators. I think a follow up letter might be in order after hearing that news.
I am sick of the rich getting richer at the cost of the working man.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:00 AM   #59
c214dick
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Garfield on the oil crisis


A lot of folks can't understand how we came
to have an oil shortage here in our country.

~~~

Well, there's a very simple answer.

~~~

No body bothered to check the oil.

~~~

We just didn't know we were getting low.

~~~

The reason for that is purely geographical.

~~~

Our OIL is located in

~~~

Alaska

~~~



California

~~~

Coastal Florida

~~~

Coastal Louisiana

~~~

Kansas

~~~

Oklahoma

~~~

Pennsylvania

and

Texas

~~~

Our

DIPSTICKS

are located in

Washington , DC!!!

Any Questions???









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Old 06-04-2008, 08:33 AM   #60
richfaa
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That is good..Very good.. The price of a BBL of oil is retreating somewhat reflecting the impact of the high energy cost on the average consumer. But not to get excited. There are unimaginable amounts of money involved here among the speculators and those who deal in Oil and they will do anything to keep prices up and not suffer losses. Keep a eye on the production numbers of the refineries. As demand goes down they can cut back production to keep prices up.
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