ANOTHER WIRELESS QUESTION???

[jackel1959]

Maybe this is a dumb question (although they say there is no such thing) but, if I am using an unsecured wireless connection can a hacker access the signal and hijack my info out of thin air or do they actually have to get to the hard drive on my computer where the information is stored? I have a good virus protection and firewall package and have set them both to be very secure. I also turn off file and print sharing when I am not on my network at home. Any other insight is greatly appreciated.

Jack

[H. John Kohl]

Definitely not a dumb question. The answer may not be an easy one.
First - if you are on an open connection any one with simple equipment can monitor anything you send or receive.
If you are on a secure connection (https) then he can not with out some form of decryption equipment/software.

If the hacker is just listen then he can not pull anything from your hard drive.

If you connect through a hackers server then his computer is hand shacking with your computer and has the potential of getting info from it including stuff stored on the hard drive.

There are others out there more up to date on this and should be able to give you more details.

Cheers,

[Waynem]

Transmitting wireless to just browse the net is "in the clear," and anyone with the right equipment sitting in between you and your wireless connection can intercept your "browsing habits." The problem arises when you purchase stuff on-line, or do your banking on-line. As John pointed out, a person would need an elaborate decription system to break the algorithms associated with HTTPS. So always look in the URL line and see what it says. Example, http://www.yahoo.com is not encrypted, where https://www.yahoo.com (this will not work) is encrypted. Always look for the HTTPS:// before posting financial information. (This will work: https://www.cia.gov/ )

HTTPS stands for "Hypertext Transfer Protocol over Secure Socket Layer"

Here is a good link to read about HTTPS Protocol

[ols1932]

How about when you have your own wireless setup?

Orv

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

How about when you have your own wireless setup?

Orv

Orv,
Your question does not have enough information to answer the question.
The parts of a network are your computer. The communications media to your Internet Service Provider. And, the other applications you communicate with.

When you say your own setup I do not believe you have the ISP so you I guess you are addressing some form of communications media between your computer and your ISP.
Please describe.
Cheers,

[Waynem]

If you have set up your network correctly employing encryption, then you should be safe.

Here is a small article on the Linksys site regarding wireless networks.

Learning Center/Network Security

There is some good information on the Linksys site regarding security.

Google "wireless security" and see what you come up with.

Edited: The problem really raises its head when you are on the road depending on WiFi hotspots, or CG WiFi. Many CG have open wireless and it is not very secure.

DSL is more secure than Cable. Why? Because DSl is a telephone line tied into a trunk and then broadcast out.

Cable is a neighborhood network and if you do not have the proper security in place, anyone on the cable run in your neighborhood can connect to an unprotected computer.

[richfaa]

Any individual depending on their level of expertise can hack into my system, your system, any system. Keep in mind that Web sites that tell you how easy it is to hack your system are also trying to sell you a product that will prevent hacking.Normal preventative measures built into your PC and the wireless protocal systems will prevent, execpt for those with the expertise. hacking your system. We do stay away from public wireless systems. It is a serious problem that IMO is a bit overstated. There is plenty of good information on wirelss security on the internet. A hour or so of Googling is a good investment.

[jackel1959]

Thanks to all of you for your inputs. I feel somewhat better now and a little more educated I am confident that the security measures I have in place on my laptop along with "safe surfing" practices should protect our information when do have to connect to an unsecured network. I will also spend some time on the net today doing some more research as suggested here. Thanks again.

Jack

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by H. John Kohl

Orv,
Your question does not have enough information to answer the question.
The parts of a network are your computer. The communications media to your Internet Service Provider. And, the other applications you communicate with.

When you say your own setup I do not believe you have the ISP so you I guess you are addressing some form of communications media between your computer and your ISP.
Please describe.
Cheers,

John,
I'm talking about private wireless systems like Hughes and Starband, etc. In order to get into my system you need a 26-digit code. Without it, I cannot get into my own system. My concern is how secure is that?

Orv

[H. John Kohl]

I will defer to Wayne on this one for the technical details. My answer is you have a lot more security than the free wifi and even my air card.
Again the issues are where can a hacker access your system and what can he see. Since you are on satellite you have better security by lack of access close by. Then your security code really helps to prevent anyone from getting in as you.
You are right to wonder and unless Wayne counters you are in good shape. Just remember not to put any personal data (ssn, credit card numbers, etc.) out on the internet unless it is over an HTTPS (secure connect). Then be cautious as always.
Cheers,

[Waynem]

The vast majority of systems that you describe are relatively safe from the normal prying eyes. Professional "internet thieves," have a large arsenal of equipment at their disposal. However, the signals that you are describing are typically line of sight and in order to intercept them, they would have to have their equipment extremely close by to pick up on some scatter RF, or be in a direct line of sight, between your directional antenna and the satellite for what you transmit. Then down link could be more easily intercepted.

In the case of normal air cards, that is easier to pick up because of the broadcast method. As I type this, anyone within range and with the right equipment could intercept it as it goes from my computer to the Cell. Sometimes it may be encrypted. I have not done a thorough check on "air card" security, but I do plan on delving into that some time down the road. Free WiFi is not secure.

Anything that travels through the Ether is subject to intercept, but there are levels of risk associated with each type of transmission. To be relatively safe, as John pointed out, you must use HTTPS as a protocol when dealing with anything sensitive. Even then, you have to weigh the risk.

*How sensitive is the information
*What are the levels of equipment encryption and what protocols do they employ? DES, Tripple DES, PKI, etc.
*Are you using SSL (Secure Socket Layers) also known as HTTPS for web sites.

A lot can be gained by searching for key words on internet security.

Edited: And it goes without saying that you should have a strong personal firewall, and good anti virus software along with adware and spyware software. Do not expect firewall, or anti virus software to protect you againtf EVERYTHING, because they cannot be that effective due to the ever changing computer hacker environment.

[ols1932]

Thanks for the answers, John & Wayne. When I went the route of purchasing my own wireless system, I researched all the feasible ways of hacking into my system and found that it would be very difficult, if not mostly improbable. I use the HTTPS protocol for all my on-line stuff and don't allow anyone else to use my signal. Have an excellent firewall (won't go into the name to avoid any arguments as to which one is the best).

Orv

[sreigle]

I agree with Rich that the "problem" is overblown. First of all, it takes some level of skill and knowledge to break into someone's system or to intercept and decrypt their signals. It can be done and there are quite a number of people with those skills. It also takes some hardware and software investment.

We've all heard of the hackers who broke into a major credit card company and stole credit card numbers. We've heard of those who broke into government systems. But why on earth would those with these skills and those investments want to intercept my signals and steal my credit card numbers? They're not after me, they're after far bigger fish.

I've been online banking and buying online for more than ten years. Never a hacker problem. For the past five plus years we've frequently used an rv park's wifi, free or paid. In fact, I'm on one now. It's wep-psk protected. Sure that can be broken but there's nothing in this park anyone would want to spend that much time on to steal. My system is firewall protected, too. That also can be defeated with enough effort. Nothing is totally secure. Not even your phone line.

Also, I am careful to ensure that any online financial transactions I do are at least encrypted (look for the lock in the browser). Sure, that encryption can be broken. But, again, they're not after me. Or you. And that encryption keeps the lesser skilled techies out, the ones that might just want to try to break into their neighbors' systems.

As for cable and dsl, I don't understand why dsl would be more secure than cable. They're both wired systems. Yes, cable has a headend which junctions multiple users in the neighborhood, but so what? It's still on wires. And even dsl junctions into common loctations during it's cycle.

I'm a retired IT person. I bought my first home computer in 1980. I've never had a problem with hackers. And, like Rich, I think this "problem" is way overblown. We'll continue using wireless services as we have for a long time. Maybe someday I'll find I'm wrong but it's not happened so far.

We each have our opinions and have to decide for ourselves just how much "exposure" to allow. And now you know mine.

[ols1932]

Steve, I like your reply. Practical experience is so important when we post on the forum. We can have all the theories in the world but practicality takes precedence. We have a high speed Starband system using WEP with a long encrypted code to use. Also, before we purchased this system we used free WI-FI throughout the US without problems. I daresay that landlines are more susceptible to hackers than these wireless systems.

Orv

[sreigle]

As I re-read my post, it sounds a bit harsh. I apologize if it comes across that way to anyone. Mostly I just get frustrated when people get scared off because of a problem in which the chance of them being hit is miniscule. Maybe "infinitesimal" is a better choice of words. I probably have a better chance of being hit by a drunk driver than I do of someone stealing my financial information by hacking into my wireless connection. But I still drive. And I still compute. I'm not saying it can't happen. I am saying the chance of it happening to me is far too small to make me quit doing it. Now, if I operated a bank of databases containing thousands of credit card numbers, that would be a totally different story. But my personal information, by itself, is too small to be a target for anyone other than a neighborhood hacker-would-be and that risk is tiny, too.

[MacDR50]

Generally speaking I agree with Steve. My only caution is that we are "legitimate" targets for thieves. The fastest growing personal crime in NA is identity theft. Most of this doesn't result from the the loss of large databases of personal information but from individual information phishing and sometimes by the use of malicious spyware (e.g. keyloggers) which are often spread by e-mails and criminal or hijacked websites. It only makes common sense to take appropriate precautions. For your own wireless network, secure it and turn off the SSID broadcast. Don't use the default SSID and change the administrator name and password. This keeps out freeloaders and people who may wish to use your network to carry-on illegal activity. Use a two way firewall and keep your virus checker up-to-date. A spyware checker is also suggested as many adware/spyware are not picked up by virus checkers. Use an anti-phishing filter with your browser. If you must use an unsecured network there are a few additional things that are easy to do that can secure you from the bad guys. First set up an account in XP or Vista with user only privileges and sign on to this when you are going to connect to an unsecured network. This prevents the installation of malicious programs such as keyloggers and screen capture programs. Avoid sending any personal information except when you are sure it is being sent over a secured link. Do not place a share on any folders on your computer. Remember you are relying on the security set-up of the wireless router. Since it is already providing an unsecured connection it is less likely to have other protections in place. This means its settings can be modified or even copied to an "Evil Twin" which means you are now being routed to the internet through a hacker's router.

Once again I agree with Steve that we shouldn't be paranoid to the point of avoiding wireless connections. Taking a few simple precautions will keep all but the most determined bad guys at bay. Our IT security guy once told me that most people who get stung do the work for the hackers by downloading compromised software, screen savers etc or opening attachments in e-mails. I believe him as I am the family's computer geek and have had to rescue more than one relative who ran that cutesy PPT presentation with an out-of-date virus checker and ended up trying to save their hundreds of family pictures etc.

[richfaa]

Lik Steve R. we have some years experience working in these systems (me Crypto) and understand how difficult, but not impossible it is to hack into the system. Rogers suggestions are well taken...When you get one of those very official and real looking notices from your credit card company, Bank. etc asking you to verify information. When you are asked to log in to the account and provide information instead of your actual log in use say... User Id Mickey PSW Mouse Or bull crap..The phoney sites will take ANY log in.

[Waynem]

Okay! Let's agree that everyone has had valid information. All of it ccmpiled should give you a very accurate description of "security." How you employ it will be strictly up to you.

As reference, John had an MOS of 2651, and I had an MOS of 2691. Both of us left the USMC and went to work for the Government. I was in IT Security for NASA as a Civil Servant, Johnson Space Center.

You can search for the key word: MOS 2691, and it will give you a pretty accurate description of what I did and what my knowledge "was." Technology changes and I'm getting to old to keep up with it.

Better yet, MOS 2691 - - Signals Intelligence/Electronic Warfare Chief I'll make it easy.

I also hold an Advanced Class Amateur Radio License, and John holds an Extra Class License.

I'm also presently attending the SOHK (School of Hard Knocks)

[Waynem]

p.s., with equipment, I can sit under a microwave tower and intercept telephone communications when you are talking to your parents in another land. Some people don't know that when you pick up the old land line, that there are not two wires from point A to point B. That signal gets rebroadcast via microwave towers many times over againg, depending on the distance.

Also, with proper equipment, a person can sit outside your house and intercept the key stroke emanations coming from your computer screen. I'm not trying to bring paranoia to anyone, but just an awareness that there are many things that people take for granted that just don't happen the way they think the will.

You May Find This Interesting

Also, search on the keywords, Computer Security, for some good reading.

[ols1932]

Okay, okay. Let's agree to disagree on some things and cut this off for now. I'm sure we'd all see some suspicious character setting outside our house with a van full of electronic equipment. The way these satellite systems have evolved, the ones that require specific coding in order to get in are the most secure. Note I said "most." I'm sure there are loop holes. No need for me to go into electronic backgrounds of each of us. I don't think any of us are fully knowledgeable but we should share what we have.

Orv