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11-13-2010, 05:24 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wheatland
Posts: 675
M.O.C. #10623
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K&N Style air filters for the Ford V10 6.8L
I'm wanting to know if anyone has any experience with these style filters on their Ford v10's. I am trying to get better gas mileage and am just kicking around ideas. I tried the "chip" and boy, what a waste of time and money. Any ideas you've got would be most appreciated.
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11-13-2010, 05:48 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 5,816
M.O.C. #9257
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Most gasoline engines are made as efficient as possible out of the factory, so I would guess "chipping" it wouldn't be worth the investment.
I considered a "wet" filter on my prior (diesel) truck and a couple of people talked me out of it, as former owners of them. There would be no difference in problems they described for a gasoline engine. They are a more of a pain to maintain and don't believe the sales guy who says, they just need to be hosed down every year or so. They are messy and they didn't think they did any better and now they are voiding warranties because some residue was detected in their engines. HUH? you need a filter for your filter? I didn't bother. I gave up on them. Admittedly, I never investigated these problems any further so I don't know if they were isolated problems or not.
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11-13-2010, 06:40 AM
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#3
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: lebanon
Posts: 466
M.O.C. #1977
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I have the K&N lifetime wet filter on my 04 Dodge diesel, But the filter cost me $60 and yes I do take it out once a year, spray it with cleaner and gently hose it off and re oil. Not a big job, I have 100,000 miles on truck. So I spent 60 for the filter and am 30 bucks ahead of the game. None of the dealers have made a comment abut my K&N voiding my warrenty. I just tell them when I take it in for service to leave the air filter alone as it is a lifetime.
bob
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11-13-2010, 09:27 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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save your money and just replace with a good air filter. I had K&N on my ford, and there more work than there worth. and I didnt see any increese in gas milage or power either.
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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11-13-2010, 09:41 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Here are some facts to consider about K&N type filters.
There are two ways of improving the airflow through a filter. The first is to increase the filter area, and the second is to increase the openings in the filter material. Since the K&N filter is no larger in surface area, guess which method is used. Larger openings in the filter material means more (and larger) dirt particles getting through. None of this is supposition, it's a matter of physics.
Will this make you engine blow up? No, at least not immediately. But neither would running no filter at all. What it will do is let more dirt into the engine causing parts to wear out faster.
For those users who disbelieve this, there are a couple things you can do that will prove my point. Take a clean white cloth and run it around the air intake on the engine side of the filter. If it gets dirty, that means the filter is letting dirt through it. Another more scientific method is to clean the air intake completely, change the engine oil, and put in a stock filter. After the normal oil life, have an oil analysis performed. Then repeat the process using a K&N filter. Don't be surprised when you see an elevation in silicon levels from the K&N. Silicon is sand, and we all know the results of sand/metal contact.
So, the question in your mind is how do companies get away with selling these? Easy. The average person does not keep their vehicle long enough for a problem to crop up. I dare say you could run this type of filtration system for 100,000 miles without a problem (so long as you don't over-oil and kill your MAP sensor). So if you plan on keeping your vehicle for less than that, it won't matter. On the other hand, the longer you keep your vehicle, the more likely you'll have a problem. What companies like K&N know is that when your engine starts using more oil because of wear, few people will connect the dots. They also know that even if you do suspect the filter is to blame, unless you have performed oil analysis on a regular basis, you have no proof the filtration system is to blame.
Yes, like Bob said, there are people who will tell you they have used one for xxxx miles without a problem. I answer these comments with a true story. When I was a teenager, I met a salesman who traveled over 50,000 miles a year. This was back in 1967, and 50,000 miles were a LOT of miles for a car. He bought a new car every year. The kicker to this story? He never, repeat never, changed the oil. Remember, at this time oil changes were recommended every 3,000 miles. Yet this guy was able to drive nearly 17 times that amount with no problem! I can't even imagine how his oil must have looked. How would you like to have bought one of his used cars?
IMHO, these types of filters should only be used on racing vehicles and outlawed on normal drivers.
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11-13-2010, 10:26 AM
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#6
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: lebanon
Posts: 466
M.O.C. #1977
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My wet filter has at least twice as much filtering area
Wet filters stop more particles then dry, that is why they go to wet filters in dusty conditions
What does driving 50,000 miles have to do with changing oil.
I know that GM had a problem with getting oil on their MAP sensors at one time
The most important thing is either replacing or cleaning the cartridge, I chose the latter
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11-13-2010, 12:20 PM
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#7
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 162
M.O.C. #10763
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I was aware of problems with MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor equiped vehicles where I know two people who HAD a K&N filter on their truck. (1 Ford and 1 Chevy) Both had problems with their MAF sensor being fouled likely due to over oiling the filter. In these cases warranty will not cover the MAF as the cause was the aftermarket filter.
I agree with Tom S... These things belong on Off Road applications.
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11-13-2010, 02:28 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St.Maries
Posts: 1,010
M.O.C. #7329
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The wet filters like K&N pass a little more air because they don't filter as good. Sure people use them in race vehicles but have you ever checked on how much maintenance is performed on race motors? I raced dirt bikes for 17 years and the maintenance schedule is like new piston and rings every 20 hours. If you go to some diesel truck forums you will find that the majority don't use them. Do a web search for air filter tests and do some reading, then make your own decision.
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11-13-2010, 03:45 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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Not that Im a person that does not think highly of K&N (Lieing) I had what I would say was bad luck with my K&N on my truck, I used to use them all the time on my off road ATC'sand got good service from them, no such luck with my truck though I will post a picture of the turbo showing the veins with dusting starting on the leading edges a turbo mechanic said the K&N was probably the cause.
so that went into the trash, and I purchased a much bigger and better filter for it from a large cumins diesel with a very large amount of air flow way more than stock and a K&N.
also the filter gage that is on the intake elbow dont work for this application I later removed it as a sugestion from the filter seller.
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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11-14-2010, 04:11 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by blarkman
My wet filter has at least twice as much filtering area
Wet filters stop more particles then dry, that is why they go to wet filters in dusty conditions
What does driving 50,000 miles have to do with changing oil.I know that GM had a problem with getting oil on their MAP sensors at one time
The most important thing is either replacing or cleaning the cartridge, I chose the latter
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Do you drive 50,000 before you change your engine oil? THAT is what I was referring to.
As for the rest of your post, I suggest you read this: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=117009
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11-14-2010, 06:17 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Tom S.
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by blarkman
My wet filter has at least twice as much filtering area
Wet filters stop more particles then dry, that is why they go to wet filters in dusty conditions
What does driving 50,000 miles have to do with changing oil.I know that GM had a problem with getting oil on their MAP sensors at one time
The most important thing is either replacing or cleaning the cartridge, I chose the latter
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Do you drive 50,000 before you change your engine oil? THAT is what I was referring to.
As for the rest of your post, I suggest you read this: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=117009
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Is it possable he might mean the oil on the filter, and not the motor, also it is a gasser, where the oil changes are far and few compaired to a diesel.
I personally believe the engin oil should be changer on a gasser every 10 K if towing with it.
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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11-14-2010, 08:54 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: corning
Posts: 694
M.O.C. #6635
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My experience with the K&N was that I got no improvement in performance or fuel economy. With cleaning and reoiling, they will last a long time. But that gets messy and you don't too much or too little oil on the filter. For me it is easier to just replace with a normal filter.
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11-14-2010, 08:57 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: St.Maries
Posts: 1,010
M.O.C. #7329
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That air filter comparison is one of the ones I was refering to. Thanks for the link.
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