FM Antenna Problems - Montana Owners Club

rickfox · 04-15-2006, 05:11 AM

Good morning all,

Alot of things have been said about the QR3000 - most of them bad. But just yesterday I noticed a problem that probably will effect all the stereos whatever the brand.

While connected to the campground cable, when my wife tried to listen to the FM stereo, there was no output even when the volume was turned up to max. It seemed as though the stereo no longer worked. A little investigation resolved the problem - which seems to be a design problem with the Montana.

Per the wiring diagram provided by Keystone, the FM antenna is connected via a coax splitter to the TV antenna. When cable TV is connected, the amplifier - typically located on a wall (mine is inside the front closet on the 3400) must be turned off (as specified by the Montana owener manual). When this is done, the ability of the TV antenna to function properly as an FM antenna appears to also be turned off.

In order to receive FM stations, I must turn the amp back on, but when I do, the TV no longer works properly with the cable stations.

At the current time, the trailer TV antenna is fully down since I'm under a tree with no ability to raise it until I move. Perhaps my FM reception would be improved if could raise the TV antenna, but overall, this seems like a dumb setup.

As it is, I must turn off the antenna amp to watch cable TV, and turn it on to listen to the radio. I can't but should be able to do both at the same time.

BAD DESIGN ON MONTANA's PART!

Parrothead · 04-15-2006, 05:50 AM

Why do you need to play both at the same time. We have not noticed this since we don't usually play the radio while watching TV.
Happy trails...........................

Montana Sky · 04-15-2006, 07:33 AM

Just another one of them things that just makes me say, "what were they thinking?"

Rick,
I posted something you might want to look into on the "buying a 3400RL" thread about the radio antenna. See if you have one and if that will help solve your problem.

bobgay · 04-15-2006, 04:11 PM

Well I'll be. We have never gotten decent radio reception, and I assumed it was because we usually camp in rural areas. After reading Rick's post I turned on the amplifier, and am now getting very good quality sound. Sure can learn a lot on this forum.
I agree it's a poor design. Even though you may not use the radio and TV at the same time, you shouldn't have to go into the bedroom closet everytime you switch from radio to TV.

H. John Kohl · 04-15-2006, 04:32 PM

The only way around it would be to install the $100.00 plus switch box and then let each unit (Main TV, Bedroom TV, Stereo, Radio) select is own signal source (Bat wing antenna, Cable, Satellite, and maybe Other). I think that is how Mobile Suites does it.
A better way but more cost and cable runs.
Good luck and tow safe.

rickfox · 04-15-2006, 04:44 PM

Bobgay,

That is exactly the way I feel. I should not have to turn on the amp to listen to FM, then turn it off to watch cable TV, then turn it on again when I want to listen to FM. Like I said - dumb design!

And guess what Parrothead, my wife found a reason to listen to both at the same time. When she goes to bed she likes to listen to her special "cowboy FM station" so she turns on the stereo and the bedroom speakers. I, on the other hand like to watch the cable TV some before going to bed. Seems like if I pay $40K plus for a rig, I should be able to do that.

I can't. Bad design. I'll bet someone came up with this great "cost reduction" idea to no longer need an outside FM antenna. Unfortunately the idea was not fully thought through.

I'm going to try several inside the trailer antenna schemes. If I have to mount something outside, I certainly think Montana should foot the bill.

Like I said earlier, I should be able to use the FM stereo and watch cable TV at the same time!

richfaa · 04-15-2006, 05:39 PM

Let me get this stright..In order to listen to the RADIO you have to have the TV antenna UP.And if you are watching cable TV in one part of the camper you can not Listen to FM radio in another part...Makes sense to me?????

H. John Kohl · 04-15-2006, 07:22 PM

You may not need to have the wing up but you do need the green light on so the antenna amplifier up top is receiving the signal. Now if the Green light is on they you will not get Cable TV. Yes I agree it is probably a cost saving item.
Good luck and tow safe.

bobgay · 04-16-2006, 03:56 AM

Rich, the green light (amplifier) must be on to listen to the radio and off to watch cable or satellite tv. The rub is that one can't watch tv in the living room while another listens to the radio in the bedroom. Not a big deal for some, but an irritant to others.

Joyce H · 04-16-2006, 12:31 PM

When we are stationary for long periods of time we use our XM satelite radio boom box in the Montana. Now that we are moving around more often we too discovered that in order to get good FM reception we had to push the booster button for the antennae. However in the small area of the Montana I don't think you could possibly listen to the FM radio and have the tv running at the same time. We sometimes even have problems if we try to put the two televisions on different channels...LOL Gee it is just a matter of pushing one little button and you get GREAT radio reception with that atnennae. We really don't find it that much of an inconvenience.

bobgay · 04-16-2006, 02:53 PM

Au contraire. We frequently watch different programs on our tv's with no problem, as long as the bedroom door is closed. True, when you push that button you get good radio reception. The problem is the tv no longer works.

sectres · 04-17-2006, 02:29 AM

If you have a separate connection for cable and satelite you can watch tv and listen to the radio at the same time. REmove the tv cable from the amp to the out on the cable satelite and should work. This works on my 2004 318BHS.

rickfox · 04-17-2006, 04:33 AM

Good Morning All,

The most straight forward approach is to attach a "real" FM antenna to the receiver rather than cluge up things by trying to use the TV antenna as the FM antenna. That's how the last 2 trailers I had did it. Costs a little more - but it works!

It seems to me that Montana decided to implement a cost reduction by tossing the FM antenna approach and using the TV antenna - without fully thinking the idea through!

The questions now are, how do we bring this to the attention of Montana? And, is it my job to fix their screwup on my trailer? - Or should they fix it?

richfaa · 04-17-2006, 05:20 AM

Although it is not consumer friendly they will say "it works" you can listen to the radio and watch cable Tv..Who said anything about "at the same time" and it only applies when you are on "cable" Sat will be OK. We have Sat and can not remember the last time we used campground cable. Chances are we will rarely crank up Tv antenna..we rarely did with our previous camper. We will just hang up one of those "Y" FM antenna's. Apparently none of the RV manufacturers do much, if any, human engineering. I don't even think it was a cost reduction thing/Looks like it would have been less expensive to run all that stuff direct.Looks like someone sold them something that sounded good in theory but does not work in the real world and most manufactures fell for it. You know Toyota is thinking about building a 1 ton truck..if they do they may also figure it should be pulling a Toyota Camper...Hummmmm????

rickfox · 04-17-2006, 07:25 AM

Rich,

I wonder if Montana is in to doing things right, or simply into justifying what they did.

Time will tell.

richfaa · 04-17-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by rickfox

Rich,

I wonder if Montana is in to doing things right, or simply into justifying what they did.

Time will tell.

Keystone/Montana is not alone in all of this .It is industry wide. There is a horror story over on RV net about a guy who bought a Nu Wa Hitch hiker that makes six campers story seem mild by comparison.
Go to any manufacture forum , low end to the highest end and you will see the same issues. It is amazing that the RV industry has not learned from the auto industry which is now on it's death bed due to the same poor quality (and other things) issues. Being way down& over in Texas you can't just run up and over to Ind and tour some of these factories. The Montana plant is idle when they do the tours so you see nothing but half built units but the Sprinter plant is in FULL operation. I urge those who normally take the Montana tour when at the Rally to go a hour earlier and tour the sprinter plant, it is in full operation.Take a tour of a couple of the other manufacturers plants, They are all close by. Honest it will make you wonder why you ever bought a camper..Therein lies the problem..I did all those things, toured the plants, saw how they are built..and bought one anyhow..I am guilty, guilty, guilty of being part of the problem....

bobgay · 04-17-2006, 02:01 PM

Rich, I don't think the problem applies only to cable TV. I am watching satellite TV right now, and it goes fuzzy when I turn on the antenna amplifier.

Parrothead · 04-17-2006, 02:44 PM

Because the antenna amplifier is meant for use only when you are using the antenna, thus the name. We have had 3 fifth wheels and they have all worked the same. To me this is just one of those things that if you don't like it, change it to conform with yours needs. Or pay $100,000 for top of the line unit.
Happy trails...................

richfaa · 04-18-2006, 03:15 AM

The 100K unit would not do you any better. In theory it was a good idea, Why have separate antennas when one can do the job. Unfortunately someone forgot to add ... at the same time ..in the spec's so they got what they asked for. In our case, because Helen likes her "tunes" we would be doing both at the same time so I will do a workaround...no big deal...

rickfox · 04-18-2006, 04:51 AM

Parrothead,

I too believe you have missed the point. I have a $10,000 expandable trailer that has an FM antenna. My last 2 fifth wheelers ($17K and $30K) both had $10 FM antennas. With all of these, I could play the FM stereo and watch cable TV at the same time.

I can't with my $58K (MSRP) Montana because some designer decided to save $10 bucks by not installing an FM antenna, and instead connected the radio to the TV antenna. And, by the way, if Montana's suggested hookup for using SAT is followed, the result will be the same - no FM when the SAT is in use!

What Montana has done is provide a product that works properly only part of the time. It makes no sense to me to say that this is good enough, and if I want it to work all the time, it is up to me to do it myself. This is the same type of approach that American auto makers have taken for years. It's no wonder that foreign auto makers are kicking their b---s simply by making a product that works and is reliable.

A man who cheats on his income tax, will cheat at others things also. Accepting products that only work part of the time because the maker cuts corners to save $10 bucks, simply gives them the go-ahead to cut even bigger corners with larger consequences in the future. After all, the buyer should expect it to work "only" part of the time.

For example, if its OK to cut corners by not installing a $10 FM antenna, why should anyone complain if Montana can save $50 by installing Chinese Mission tires. After all, those tires got the rig from Indiana to you! Good enough!?

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