NEW RIDE !!!

[skypilot]

Carlson: Have to ask - let me rephrase that - my comment and then you can choose to answer if you wish -- the reason the M2s in Albuquerque were optioned to the hydraulic vs. the air brakes is that New Mexico, just like Kansas, requires an 'Air Brake Endorsement' to your license if your vehicle has airbrakes. Here in Kansas that appears to require the lowest 'CDL' available as the local DL folks don't put air brake endorsements on their class c (regular vehicle) licenses. Has become an even bigger issue since the 1st of this calendar year as the road mounties are now checking more vehicles (found $2 million cash in someone's this morning -- that is another issue). Regardless, wondering if you have had any problems with such licensing, etc....

[GregN]

I have been looking at the Med Duty Trucks for awhile. I have just one thing to say.....I am jealous. Happy Trucking

[carlson]

Skypilot,
That is a very good question.
The vehicle is registered as a RV in Montana.
It is labeled NOT FOR HIRE
So air brake endorsement is not required, to the best of knowledge
Question - John Q Citizen who drives a Motorhome with air brakes, is he require air brake endorsement??
It is not a problem for me as I have a CDL-A with air, tank and haz-mat endorsements, but my wife just has a operators.
I am going to do more looking into.
Thanks for asking.
I have always said the wrong question is the one that was never asked!!

[Tiffensdad]

Though it has been awhile since I tested and got my CDL and endorsements I think I remember that the endorsement is only needed if it is a commercial vehicle. Of course things could have changed since then.
I'm still admiring the new ride. DW thinks it looks great but as predicted she is not in favor of my persuing such a vehicle

[skypilot]

Carlson (and others): I was talking about this issue yesterday with a fellow RVer here where I work; One of our student workers happened to jump in and told us what happened to him, and several others this past weekend. K-State University sponsored an intercollegiate Rodeo this past weekend. Several of the participants showed up pulling their horse /living quarter trailers using MDT and HDT (yeap - full size semi tractors ). Well, Kansas law changed effective 1 Jan 08 and requires farm equipment drivers to have CDLs and necessary endorsements. In the vein of safety inspections to ensure that participants made it home safely, Kansas had police and DOT inspectors at the exit points checking vehicles, trailers, licenses, etc.. before the participants could leave Saturday and Sunday. This young man only had the standard Kansas license but has his 'parents' M2 and trailer here for his use during the equine events (he travels all over for different events for the athletic team he is with). Regardless, he was told to park his unit and call someone with the correct license and endorsements to drive -- he was not cited (no one was according to him, they simply were told to park their rigs and get someone with correct endorsements to drive for them).. He went to Junction City yesterday (closest place to us that has a CDL inspector) and got his CDL and air-brake endorsement.

Went to an RV show in Wichita KS last month and the dealers there were all complaining about sales of Class A's being down because of the new law. Dealers from both Wichita KS and some that came up from Oklahoma both commented that the 'bus' drivers (as I called them) now had to have air-brake endorsements. When I called Motor Vehicle department that following week, they told me (and I actually got a copy of the current rules) that RVs were currently exempt. In reality what it amounts to is that there are two different laws out in Kansas - one does not have the RV exemption, the other does. Supposedly, the currently sitting Legislature has a bill before it to modify the one to add RV exemptions into it to bring both into agreement. The State Police have been 'loosely' enforcing it -- I.E. warning but not citing according to the lady in Topeka that I spoke with.

So, bottom-line to all of this, in Kansas at least, and as of mid-January 2008 -- if you are pulling or driving an RV you don't need a CDL or air-brake endorsement, however, if you pull anything commercially, or you are pulling something that can haul farm animals (our Equestrine Team members for example), you must have both a CDL and have the appropriate endorsements, not limited to only air brakes.

Sorry for being so long winded again.

[carlson]

Skypilot,
In NH the commerical vehicle, license laws.
Commerical exemption,
Fire Apparatus
RV
Farm Related Equipment.
With the new Kanasa law, is it related to being a resident, licensed and registered in KS.
What if you are driving through KS??

[Icehouse]

N-I-C-E! Very Nice Ride!!!

[skypilot]

The law that changed was Kansas Code, here is a quote from the CDL FAQ page off their website: "My parents are thinking about getting one of those huge RVs for travel. Will either of them need a CDL? What if they want to share the driving? They are both very capable drivers.
It varies according to the weight of the vehicle. If the RV weighs enough to be considered a commercial motor vehicle, your parents will need CDLs (refer to the first question/answer on this page for weights). Otherwise, they may drive the RV with their regular driver's licenses."

I don't find anything specifically about 'out-of-state' vehicles. I did find where Kansas issues CDLs to 18 year olds for purpose of driving farm vehicles and quoting again " You are eligible to apply for a CDL at the age of 18 in Kansas. However, until you're 21 you may drive a commercial vehicle within the state of Kansas only. If by over-the-road you mean cross-country type trucking, then you must be at least 21 year old."

On Edit: Doing some more research and found a table of the 'current' rule which is potentially being amended. Regardless it states that if the driver is hauling livestock IN-State, a CDL is NOT required; however hauling Grain is because grain may go to an elevator to be loaded on trains / cross-country trucks which constitutes Inter-state commerce. It then has a caveat - if the trip exceeds 150 miles from the farm of origin, a CDL IS required under all cases (hence our young students at the collegiate Rodeo.)

So, not finding anything to the contrary it would appear (and NOTE - Appearances can be deceiving at times) that the laws of your home state would rule... but I'm no lawyer (computer geek and management professor actually) so please take this all as advice but not a legal ruling by any means...

[richfaa]

We have to be careful not to get the Federal mandated CDL license requirements and what some States call a CDL license. They are not the same thing. Many states now have a CDL license for RV's that closely resembles the Federal CDL but modified to include Rv's. The Federal CDL covers commercial drivers.. That is what the "C" stands for. The license that the individual state issues does NOT allow you to drive commercial across the country. With the Federal license IF you drive a vehicle with Air Brakes you must have a air brake endorsement. Now Ohio does not yet have a State requirement for RV drivers (they should ) I do have a CDL license, Air Brake endorsement and several others.My Federal CDL would not cover me driving my 3400 in the States that have a RV CDL license because of " special language the States imcluded..In My opinion deliberately so that Federal CDL holders would still have to Spend the money for the State license.. I am all for the testing for safety issues but the present State syestems are just a money maker for the State and Safety is not a concern..

[skypilot]

I just got off the phone with the Drivers License Office, Junction City, KS. The gentleman I spoke with said that the Kansas CDL is the same as Federal, they are one and the same in his mind. However, Kansas DOES allow 18 through 20 year olds to get a CDL so that they can drive commercial vehicles WITHIN the state of Kansas, specifically looking at grain harvesters and other farm equipment. If the person needs to go out of state, no matter what the distance, then they must be 21 years of age or older to be legal out of state. I asked him specifically if the license was different for those 21 and over - he said "No, not at all." So, for Kansas at least, if we take the word of one license inspector, it is all one and the same.

I'm hoping to go to the KC RV Show tomorrow. I'll ask some of the dealers about the air-brake endorsement and CDLs to see what they are telling prospective customers. Ought to be interesting..

One last item -- I'm thinking more and more of going and getting my CDL (lowest level) just for 'insurance' sake. Just like other insurances, hope to never use them but better to have it when it is needed.. Given the mood of some states for money, and possible hassles with law enforcement, might be a worthy investment..

Weather looks like it is going to be warm in a good part of the US this weekend -- if you are out and about -- be safe - We want to hear from you again next week...

[carlson]

Skypilot,
Do you have a vehicle that you can take to do your driving and saftey walk through thaqt meet the weight requirement for Commerical Vehicle.
Thanks for all the info and it was good feed back.

[Waynem]

I don't know about the other states, but in Texas there is one thing to remember about having a CDL. If you get a ticket, regardless of the incident and towing or not towing, or in a car, you cannot take driver's Ed to get out of it. You pay the fine and I think they are a little steeper than if you have just a class C license.

I had a motorcycle accident in March of 07. Single vehicle with the only damage to my own vehcile and no damage to any property. Ticket was for driving to fast for conditions. Not speeding or anything else. Cost was $168.00 with no option for Defensive Driving because I have a CDL.

[skypilot]

Carlson: Not sure what you are asking on the last question -- if you are asking 'what do you drive when you go to take your CDL, to be honest I'm not sure'... something else to ask. (Our young student had his Dad drive the rig over and stood by in case his son failed and couldn't drive it back... Not sure what I could do, parents are not available to help with that....

Now, I did make it to the KC RV Show today and asked 3 different vendors, and one Factory Rep (Nu-Way): "Is there anything special that I would have to get - license wise - to move from pulling a 5th wheel to a large Class A?" Two of the three told me 'absolutely nothing other than normal state drivers' license'. The third one (Olathe RV as I recall, said that up to 40 footers I needed nothing; however on anything larger than 40 footers, or if I pulled a trailer behind for my toad I would need a commercial license with air brake endorsement. I asked him, OK no trailer then why would I need nothing for 40 foot or less - he just said because that was the law. ??? The friend that was with me asked him what about if we were pulling a vehicle behind us 4-on-the-road, or on a dolly (specifically since the sales droid said pulling a trailer) and he said nothing required unless the toad has all 4 of its wheels off the ground on something like a vehicle trailer or inside of an enclosed trailer.

One of the other RV dealers' salesmen told us he really didn't know but introduced us to Ed from Nu-Way. Ed knew nothing about Class A's but said that he had delivery people and sales reps out all over the country driving MDTs pulling delivery and show units. He was having more and more issues with them needing CDLs and air-brake endorsements. Cited California as one example that didn't require a CDL but does have an endorsement to their 'normal' license for air-brakes; also for trailers over certain weights. Told us that he had heard of the Kansas reg change and was watching that closely as it would have an impact if the the conflicting law wasn't corrected soon.

Overall, found it interesting. As Brad (BSMeaton) said in an earlier post, as states scramble to find sources of revenue, this appears to be one that they are addressing.....

One last thing -- as I continue to read on this, I'm impressed (distressed as well) at the penalties and restrictions we'd be subject to with a CDL of any level. As Wayne mentions immediately above, their is only one 'option' and it is $$$$$....

[Mudchief]

skypilot, if you dig deeper I think you will find that you need DOT numbers even on a pickup truck. Therefore if they bring the RV's into the law we will have to put that on our doors. I also agree with Brad.