Pin Box Problem - Montana Owners Club

Jolu · 05-13-2008, 03:35 PM

A heads up for a possible pin box problem. My 08 2955RLs pin box mount hits the side of the top rail of the bed on my 08 Chevy 1 ton Dully when in a sharp turn.

I have a Reese 16K hitch and the pin box is a Lippert Mod #1716. I think this is the standard pin box for the Montana.

The folks at Charger RV in Elkhart IN sent me to Elkhart Hitch near by for their help. They called Lippert and spoke with the powers that be and this seems to be a problem common with the new Chevy's and Fords and not with Dodge. Chevy has made the bed of the new body style deeper and I guess the same is true for the Ford.

Lippert told Elkhart Hitch they could not remove any of the fixed steel flanges that the pin box bolts to. That would void the Lippert warranty. Only a slight portion of this mount needs to be ground off to fix the problem. Lippert also stated they do not have a fix either. Keystone has not seen this before.

So, I have a new 08 Chevy with less than 4500 miles with a damaged top rail of the bed and there is not a fix for the cause. My only thought is to go with the tallest tires I can find and then raise the hitch higher and maybe this might help with clearance.

JB

HughM · 05-13-2008, 05:37 PM

I had to raise my Reese 16K slider hitch one more notch to clear the bed rails on my 2007.5 Chev 2500. Before it was 3.5 inch clearance and after moving hitch up a notch its 6 inches clearance.
I also switched 16 inch tires to 17 inch tires.
Hugh

bsmeaton · 05-14-2008, 05:25 AM

I was wondering if that was going to be a problem, especially when I saw how tall the bed became on the 1/2 ton Fords a few years ago. Not sure what the manufacturers are trying to accomplish with the taller beds.

Sorry to hear about the issue, JB. I don't know a fix other than adjust up that hitch. If you have the 1621 pin box, I have the 1116 pin box in my basement we took off of our 3400 the day we brought it home. It's 4-1/2" shorter in length than the 1621 and is rated higher. It might cure your problem.

You're welcome to have it. We are here in Littleton.

mtheo · 05-14-2008, 05:39 AM

I had the same problem with my last truck and trailer. Took a saw-all and trimed a 1"x1/2" triangle corner off the mount, it was not even near the pin box and I felt it would have no effect.
This is one of those things nobody wants to take resposibity for.
Some time you do what you got to do.

Jolu · 05-14-2008, 05:55 AM

Hugh & Brad thanks for the response. Brad I thought a shorter pin box might make a difference. But, then I might get into a turning issue with the bumper hitting the trailer. I'm not for sure though.

The best I can tell if I could remove about a 1/2" diagonal portion from the back of the steel box than hangs down from the trailer frame that the pin box bolts to all would be well. The fixed steel box is what hits. If I did this Lippert would void the warranty on the frame. Lippert does not have a fix at this time. The pros at Elkhart Hitch said there would be no loss of structural integrity. I can't see a fix unless this happens or a pin box that is maybe 1"-2" shorter. Can't raise the hitch higher, this would cause the trailer to be high in the front and throw extra weight on the rear axle.

Brad, I will take some more measurements and see if the pin box you have will clear. It may take me a little time to get to this though. I appreciate your offer. That might be the answer if it clears. The other thought is as Hugh indicted he did was to change the trailer tires to a taller tire and raise the hitch. Just have to make sure the fixed box clears the top rail and watch out for trailer tilt when in a hole.

Keystone buys the frames from Lippert. Lippert and Keystone need to get together and address this issue. From what I heard I am not the first to have this happen.

JB

HughM · 05-14-2008, 06:41 AM

Jolu, I was not clear enough in my former post regarding tires. I put the 17" tires on the truck and not the trailer. They may or may not be a solution for you in your particular case.
Sorry for the confusion.
Please keep us posted on you rememdy.
Hugh

bsmeaton · 05-14-2008, 06:55 AM

JB,

I can't be positive, but I think all of the nose lengths on the Monty's are the same (within the same year), regardless of the model. The only reason for the different pin box lengths is weight (1621 is a 15,500 lb box, and 1116 is a 19,000 lb box.) The shorter the box, the more it will hold. With that, I'm assuming that installing the shorter pin box would be no different than if you had bought the 3400 instead of the 2955, you're truck should still be able to turn even though it may be closer to the bed than before.

Anyway, I'm assuming a lot

. Just let me know. You're welcome to have it even if you don't end up using it. Might be something to try before you make a cut.

TLightning · 05-14-2008, 08:05 AM

One word of caution, double check the pin box you actually have versus the pin box the label says it is. I went round and round with Lippert, Keystone, the dealer and 5th Airborne because the pin box on my Montana had a different pin box than the label said it had.

sreigle · 05-14-2008, 05:14 PM

I don't have the problem but our pinbox is the 1116 and the truck is a Dodge.

You mentioned raising the Reese hitch. I would recommend trying that before springing for new tires. That might be enough. Taller tires would help hold the level but if you're just raising the hitch a couple of inches you may not be enough nose high to worry about it. We run slightly nose high but I have to look really close to tell it.

I had the Reese 16K Classic on a Kwik-Slide in a 2005 F250 and ran the Reese in the highest set of holes. I think the Kwik-Slide also raises it higher than the non-slider Reeses but I'm not sure about that. The result was running the Montana slightly nose high but, again, not enough to be a problem.

Jolu · 05-15-2008, 04:13 AM

Steve with the new Chevy body style the bed I believe is about 2" deeper than the the pre 07 1/2 models. The Chevy 1 ton Dully 4X4 bed height at the tail gate is about 58 1/2" off the ground. I am already slightly high in the front when I tow now. If I raised the hitch more without getting the trailer higher off the ground the pros at Elkhart Hitch thinks I will be adding more weight to the rear axle thus that would be a problem also. What comes to mind to me is hot tires, axle weight, spindle weigh, bearings and to many other things that could happen.

I don't think it is the Lippert 1716 pin box that is the problem unless it might be considered a couple of inches to long. If it were slightly shorter (1" or 2") the fixed steel box that is part of the trailer frame would miss the inside of the top bed rail. This fixed box already has a nipped bottom back corner. It just needs to be nipped a little more.

I think the fix would be to go to 235/85R16 trailer tires that are about 2" taller and then nip about a 3/4"W x 4" diagonal slice of steel off the fixed box the pin box bolts to. Then raise the hitch in the bed as much as possible. Of coarse this voids the Lippert warranty.

While at Elkhart Hitch they were preping a Colorado 5th wheel. This Colorado had a fixed steel box that had a very steep angled bottom. If Montana had this type of box for the pin box to bolt to there would not be a problem hitting.

Brad, I think if the pin box were 4 1/2" shorter the front trailer bay door will not open all the way without hitting the tailgate. Not for sure at this point though. There is not all that much room now especially if you are a little kinked.

For New Ford and Chevy owners I would suggest they check their turning allowances for a possible hitting problem in a sharp turn. Also remember not all camp sites have a level approach when turning into the site. Dodge does not have this problem as I understand. I think Dodge has not gone with a deeper bed. I asked the Chevy dealer why Chevy went with a deeper bed and they said their (GM) input was a deeper bed was suggested by the buying market. Go figure that.

JB

HughM · 05-15-2008, 05:30 AM

As I stated earlier I raised my hitch. My RV rides a little higher in the front than the rear but not a lot. I too was concerned about overloading the rear tires. On the first trip (2500 miles)I constantly checked all 4 trailer tires with a Harbor Freight IR temperture gauge. There was either no difference or 1-2 degrees difference in the front and rear temperture of the tires.
Certainly not enough to be concerned about.
Hugh

CRUZIN 2 · 05-15-2008, 06:09 AM

We are in Lincoln Ne and parked near a Jayco Designer and a new Chev 3500, the whole unit is only about 6 mo. old. The box rail is already dented and scratched, so this is a problem with other 5th wheels, not just keystone.

sreigle · 05-15-2008, 06:15 AM

JB, I empathize with you. A possibility is to raise the hitch as high as necessary to solve the problem, then take the rig to a scale and take one weighing with both axles on a segment, then another weighing with just one of the axles on the segment. Math would tell you how much weight you are shifting to the rear axle. Then at least you'd know if that approach is feasible for you. Good luck with this. Please let us know how this comes out.

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