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Old 11-11-2007, 02:47 AM   #1
Bill and Ann
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Heavy duty shackles...Option?

I just arrived in the RGV for the winter and thought I would post some comments that Larry from Fox RV in Middlebury, In. made to me while I was getting my coach serviced. We have had our unit since new in 04.
I asked him to check my shackles as everyone seems to be having problems lately. My coach has about 23K on it. He said the shackles were good. That my coach has heavy duty shackles on it instead of the regular ones that are put on new units.
I didn't know that this was an option and were on the coach when we bought it new.
The next thing he mentioned is that he didn't recommend just squirting grease in the axles. He said it is better to pull the wheel and inspect the bearings and re-grease. At the same time the brakes can be checked and adjusted.
I had him do this the first year we had the coach and he told me to come back after 20K. This was the 20K inspection. He pulled the wheels, repacked the bearing and adjusted the brakes. No new parts needed.
Larry also mentioned that the people with "never lube" axles should do the same because the cost of maintaining the bearings and brakes is far cheaper than replacing everything. He stated that people get over confident with the "never lubes" and miss doing periodic checks of the brakes and axles.
The last thing he mentioned to me was "see you in 20K".
By the way, I got rid of my Tacoma tires and put on Coopers.
 
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Old 11-11-2007, 03:04 AM   #2
richfaa
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Hummm ..Does that mean that heavy duty shackles were OEM in 04 then sometime after that they went to the ones that we see now????Did your OEM heavy duty shackles have grease fittings.My heavy duty shackle kit also included grease fittings for the springs.Everything else that was stated was what my dealer also told us. I note that my Cooper tires run a bit hotter than the Missions ..not much..but hotter.We also note that with the shackle kit and new tires we get a better ride.
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Old 11-11-2007, 03:14 AM   #3
Mrs. CountryGuy
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Bill, did you get the heavy duty stuff cause you have a Big Sky??? Any idea??
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Old 11-11-2007, 03:41 AM   #4
Bill and Ann
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I don't know what is going on with the shackles. Stiles had a Big Sky, not sure of the year but I think it was the same. Perhaps he will comment. But, he had problems with his and replaced them. All I know is that Larry said that they were the heavy duty shackles but without the grease fittings. He said they were still good and there wasn't any wear and not worth the extra $$ to replace to get grease fittings.
Rich: Can't comment on the temp of the tires...It is 87 deg. here in the valley. I know I am hot.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:48 AM   #5
stiles watson
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My 2003 Big Sky did not have heavy duty shackles as far as I know. If they were heavier it didn't make any difference because it was the nylon bushings that failed causing the shackles holes to elongate. There is only one size spring eye and bolt going through the eyes so there can only be one size of bushing.

While I am really pleased that Bill has not experienced failure in this area, unless the shackle material is thicker as it is on the Dexter upgrade, I fail to understand what else could be called "heavy duty". Sorry, Bill, but from an experiencial stand point, the "heavy duty with nylon bushings" story sounds like smoke and mirrors. I would continue to have the shackles inspected at whatever intervals you deem appropriate.

I do, however, agree with your service man about axles and wheel bearings. Most shops now have a machine that repacks the bearings rather than hand repacking. Physical inspection makes good safety sense to me.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:32 PM   #6
8.1al
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Our 2004 sure didn't come with heavy duty shackles did it Stiles? The main thing is that your are doing fine.
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:59 PM   #7
DHenry
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My 2004 did not have the heavy duty shackles either. If yours are the heavy duty ones they will be about 3/8" thick. The bushings will no doubt be the nylon ones though and that is what wears out first then the shackles start wearing.
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Old 11-11-2007, 05:05 PM   #8
noneck
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Ok...my useless 2 cents. The Shackles are not supposed to wear as there is a spline in the end cap of the original bolts. The rotational motion is supposed to happen in the eyelet of the spring pack where that nylon bushing is... From what I can assume is these older units did not have spline on the bolts and hence rotational movement is occuring on thinner shackle plates and elongation is what results...then the failure mode where it rips out. Just my guess here...or maybe alternatively that spline wears out and then the elongation and subsequent failure.
I'm interested in Bill and Ann post about the 20k interval for repack...this seem very reasonable as I too am on the tack of never using my wheel bearing zerk for fear of blowing out rear seal. I have been doing the every other year pull/repack plan feeling its way over kill. Mileage interval makes very good sense and thinking 20k...well hard to say that is too soon!
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:14 PM   #9
8.1al
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noneck,
The bolts are serrated. I was told by a Dexter rep that one cause is improper assembly. If an impact wrench is used to tighten the nut and the bolt not held tightly with a wrench the bolt will be turned in the hole and lose its tight fit. It will then be able to turn and wear the shackle.
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:33 PM   #10
stiles watson
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Noneck,

You are correct about the splined bolt, but it is only on one of the shackles. The opposing shackle is unsplined and the nut tightens against a sholder bolt. The shackles do not begin to wear until the nylon bushing has failed and begins to place undue forces on the shackle bolt (like metal against like metal).

By the time I changed out my shackles and bushings, several (but not all) of the bolts on each side of the coach were at a point that the bolt needed to have a back wrench on the splined side to loosen the nut because the spline also had failed. Look at the pictures and you will see worn bolts, worn out bushings, and elongated shackle holes.

I agree that this may not "supposed to happen", but it does. The early shackle bolts were also splined. Your 2 cents worth is always welcome as is any observation and discussion. I am neither engineer nor metalergist. As a one time mechanical designer long ago and far away, I may be applying ancient technology to a current situation. I wish one of those types would chime in with definitive answers based on first hand, independent observation and not just speculation.
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Old 11-11-2007, 08:04 PM   #11
wersqu
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Here is a picture of mine off of my 2003 3575. Failed with less than 20,000. The dexter upgrade shackles are over twice as thick and I too think I get a better ride.
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Old 11-11-2007, 11:06 PM   #12
richfaa
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remember these are RV's designed for occasional use. Most weekender's and vacationer's would never get 12/15K miles on the Rv in a lifetime. The OEM shackles are designed for just that. Many of use use the RV in a manner it was not intended or designed to be used and see failures and wear associated with that use.I am not defending the RV industry..just stating how it is..
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Old 11-12-2007, 12:12 AM   #13
Glenn and Lorraine
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

...... I note that my Cooper tires run a bit hotter than the Missions ..not much..but hotter.
Rich, I find that difficult to believe. With everything being equal such as ply rating, load, air pressure, alignment, etc there should be no difference in running temps.

Trying to do a test on your own is also next to impossible. To do a proper test EVERYTHING on the roads would have to be exactly the same.
Exactly the same roads, exactly the same load, exactly the same everything including, and very, very important, same air temperature, road surface temperature. Vary the least bit and the equation is knocked out of wack.
One way to better understand is to watch any NASCAR Nextel Cup race. The slighest change in air pressure and track condition changes everything about the car. Same thing, on a much smaller scale, applies to your personal vehicles including the trailer.

Bill, In my opinion, those Cooper's were an excellant choice and one that I would feel very comfortable with.

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Old 11-12-2007, 07:34 AM   #14
VanMan
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Wouldn't different tread designs result in different resistence (friction), ergo different running temperatures??
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:06 AM   #15
Glenn and Lorraine
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by VanMan

Wouldn't different tread designs result in different resistence (friction), ergo different running temperatures??
Absolutely! The more friction the more heat. Forgot about that factor.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:55 AM   #16
richfaa
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I have no problem with the Cooper tires. We have been using them for years.. What I noted was that with the tires at 80psi ( Doran pressure monitor system) the Missions psi would increase to 85/86 on the interstate indicating a rise in temp.. The Coopers will rise to 88/90 under the same conditions..Just a observation..not a complaint. Perhaps it is the different tread design..I didn't know enough about tires to think of that...
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