3400RL Consumer RV rating

[ARJ]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

If you note on the Consumer groups web site ONE of the sources of information they use to rate IS consumer feed back. I would there fore assume that Montana owners HAVE responded and that informatiom was included in any ratings. If the web site is examined you will learn exactly how they get their information and from what sources. It is a source of information to be considered..what the individual does with the information is..their choice.When we purchased a truck to pull the 3400 we depended on specifications determined by the manufacturers not from folks who had...'pulled it all over the country with no problems" The information from that consumer group , other comsumer groups and many other sources was factored into our decision to purchase a Montana.To suggest the a source of information is incorrect just because we do not agree with it..is..wellll......

Sorry Rich but RV.org is NOT a consumer group. It is a for profit business. The key word in your statement is "ASSUME". I don't think there is really any way to determine who or how many respond to their questionaire or for that matter what they do with the information they say they obtain from the manufacturers.

However if folks get warm fuzzies by using the service, its their money!

[Jim Jarvis]

hehehe, I got a chuckle out of that to Rich. Your reply was perfect.

[CmdrDewey]

RV Consumers Group is a tool just like a wrench or a screwdriver. Just like other tools, results may depend on the user. I joined when I bought my 2955 despite the 2 ½ star rating. I was also interested in the livability rating. At the time mine was rated Snowbird and the SOB I was looking at was Vacation. That was $8,000 more money as well so I bought the Montana. I did rely on anecdotal evidence from users in addition to rv.org. In my case the tool was used right something not always the case when I use more traditional tools.

They get (or got) their data in a variety of ways. I am not currently a member so I am not sure how they are doing it now. They used to ask members to get brochures from RV shows and send them to them. They also solicited direct from manufacturers and some cooperated and some did not. They had what they called propriety software that would analyze balance and weight. They relied on what the manufacturers told them and in many cases it was wrong. They would tell you if a manufacturer would not cooperate. I stayed away from those manufacturers. Why should I buy from someone with something to hide.

Take a look at what they say about motor homes and travel trailers. Most buyers of motor homes don’t measure the overall length and figure out the ratio of wheelbase to overall length. RV.org does. The higher the number the better (look at a Prevost, BlueBird or MCI sometime) Lower numbers are tiring to drive and difficult to handle. I can’t remember the minimum acceptable but I think it was about 54%.

Anyway one place they do get information is to send a questionaire to all member to rate their own rig. Primarily they are looking at durability and livability as well as resale value. Rather that throwing a hissy fit because some one doesn’t agree with your biased opinion, why not send them a letter explaining what you like and what you don’t and why. Perhaps someone else could benefit from your analysis.

As always YMMD (and it probably does)

Travel safe and be well

[richfaa]

"RV Consumer Group is a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting the RVing lifestyle. Our financial support comes from membership dues, book sales, and tax deductible contributions. We are not aligned or affiliated with, or financially supported by, the RV industry."


What can I say????

[Okie Guy]

He is a link for anyone questioning the "for profit," "not for profit" status of this rv.org business. go to www.allwhois.com and then type in their name. This site will tell you who has registered the domain, where they are based and other information.
Everyone can make their own educated decision from both the website and the allwhois.com information.

[richfaa]

"Well, don't help those weasels by buying their ratings CD. They're based in Washington State, any RVs built there "
As a matter of fact..there are..


Search for WA "Returned 2 results

Company Name Types of Products Manufacturered
Click View Button for More Information
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trail Wagons, Inc. Class C Motorhomes - Van Campers
Western Recreational Vehicles, Inc. Fifth Wheel Trailers, Class A Motorhomes, Truck Campers,

[mtnhntr]

I happen to live in the same town they do. This town by the way is an unincorporated, no stop light small town and I have never seen their place of business. I guess I will have to go looking for it. I really can't say anything good or bad about them as I do not know them at all. They have a phone number in the phone book and a P.O. Box number for an address. Based on what I have heard about them on the "net" and a small article in the local newspaper they tend to "dry lab" their findings vs actually testing the actual RV. This is not necessarilly a bad thing in a general sense, but can lead to some flawed opinions IMHO. They also visit RV manufacturers to gather info. I personally do not pay any attention to them because my experience with RV's has not often correlated with their ratings. I would view this source as a small piece of my search for an RV.
Ken

[Wrenchtraveller]

I have been told by quite a few RV dealers that the contract haulers find the Montanas one of the nicest units to tow and my experience is the same. As far as consumer reports and other magazine hogwash, I will stick with real life experience. I bought a Canadian RV mag a while back that gave a VW Jetta pulling a fairly large TT a higher handling score than a 3/4 ton truck pulling a Fiver.
This guy had to be a complete idiot to write this article but this kind of BS is out there.

[richfaa]

Agree that the comsumer group reports are but a source of information to consider when purchasing anything and I would say the the original poster was using it in that manner. I was surprised at the "defensive" post.When making a decision it is wise to consider all information agree with it or not rather advise others that the information is "invalid" because one may have already purchased the product without considering the information and now feel it must be defended ...right or wrong. Oh about opinions which all of us have.

"An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

In economics, philosophy, or other social sciences, analysis based on opinions is referred to as normative analysis (what ought to be), as opposed to positive analysis, which is based on scientific observation (what materially is). In mathematics and logic there can be no opinions about some claims, equations, and arguments, because often these kinds of statements are either valid or invalid, and true or false, and not open to contradicting opinions"

[old turbo]

A cure for all of this is to go buy what you want and what you like, it is your money. What did we do before we had all these research groups to help us spend our money?

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

"RV Consumer Group is a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting the RVing lifestyle. Our financial support comes from membership dues, book sales, and tax deductible contributions. We are not aligned or affiliated with, or financially supported by, the RV industry."


What can I say????

Just who does this "membership" consist of? Is it at all possible that Montana/Keystone is NOT a member? Is it possible that some of the higher rated RV manufacturers are members and the RVCG has to protect those "membership dues"?

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Might want to take the time to go here http://www.rv.org/ and find out who these folks are before we pass judgement. That the Montana DIVISION has been the number one best seller partly by combining Mountaineer and Montana sales, means little. That we drive them all over the country with no problems means little and is not true as many of us drive them all over the country with many problems. Perhaps they are the best seller because Montana division will discount more than other manufactures..which is the primary reason we have a Montana instead of a Jayco designer 34RLQS. The RV consumer group does a fine job of rating RV's and should be required reading BEFORE purchase..WE did, still got the Montana but we were fully aware of what we were purchasing. One of the indicators is the low CC of many Montana's and the probability that we will overload them therefor creating a safety hazzard. Now tell me no one ever runs over weight.

RICH, Reading your above reply and other past posts/replys of your's I have become very bewildered. Those of us that were around when you first joined the MOC with just a TT remember how thoroughly you scrutinized many of the different 5th wheel manufacturers before deciding on your Monty. Now I do realize that the final line in dollars and cents is a contributing factor but having met you face to face I just cannot believe price was your only factor. Without going any further on my part, could you explain to us just what it was, other than the $$$, that made you purchase a Monty rather than the many SOBs you looked at?

I do not mean this as a personal attack but myself and others, I have spoken to, would really like to know.

[Army Guy]

Reguardless of all the information out there, I am happy with mine and would not trade away for nothing. I've found that it meets all the wants that we had when we were looking for a 5th. It tows fine with no problems and actually, something I do enjoy towing. Put me down for one of the happy consumers of the 3400.

[5ER]

How could the RV Consumer Group make accurate ratings if they do not purchase and actually live in and tow the RV'S they are rating?? Or do they?? I know Consumers Report will drive a vehicle before rating it. If they are using a questioneer form from the owners I don't hear anyone on this forum giving the 3400 Montana's a low Highway control score.

[richfaa]

We are also satisfied Montana owners, lengthly list of problems over the past year not with standing.It appears, as usual, that there are those who feel that any perceived unfavorable post about the Montana is a indication of not being satisfied.We see the Montana for what it is, a good camper, there are much better and much worse.We, after much research purchased one and are satisfied that we made the proper choice. We did not purchase the best camper, we did not purchase our first choice camper..we purchased the camper that met our all over needs. Our choice was determined by.. Dealer reputation, Manufactures reputation in customer service, the keystone service center, among other things, wins hands down(of course our home base is near the service center)Quality/workmanship ..understanding that it is lax throughout the RV industry... ... When ALL factors were weighed the Montana fell out as the best bang for the buck and met our RV'ing needs. That is not new information...It has been said before.And I say again...ALL sources of information were considered including consumer groups and forums such as this one. In my post on the Rv consumer group..did anyone notice that nowhere did we say we agreed with them .

The Jayco designer 34RLQS is very much like the Montana 3400 and was our first choice..reasons for not purchasing.The above mentioned, the Location of the W/D and we could not get the discount on the Jayco that we could on the Montana.

[richfaa]

If the staff has had an opportunity to evaluate Manufacturer Z's brands by physical inspections, those scores are entered into the database. For this example Brand A received an evaluation score of 65, Brand B received 70, and Brand C was not evaluated."


If the manufacturer will not allow a physical inspection it is not rated by Rv consumer group.Again by reading the web site the manner in which they collect their data can be seen. If members of this forum disagree with the rating we can enter our data..we did.It is also intresting to learn HOW they come up with that low highway control score..It may be incorrect, it may be correct..it may be a learning experience...and///I give up..no more on the subject for me.Apparently objectvity is not working this week.

[Tom Gina 06]

This is getting way to serious....... Maybe all these numbers got way out of wack because of the level of hang over they had the day they filled out the form. Good day, bad day, doesn't matter it all comes down to personal choice. If my rig is lost based on my driving (not some consumer group) and gets totaled well now...... that is why I pay out the big bucks on my insurance! Besides every rig I have owned has had its own personality when towing it. The only way to know that is tow it for a while. Personally I would much rather make my own choice by learning about the product myself hands on. For me this forum and the product layout is what sold me. I have no desire to even look at new rigs anymore even if I have had some problems, that should say enough.

[Leaseit]

At the start of the post was "The RV Comsumer Group Said". Thats ok, but i don't see any Test or Technical Data or Testing Criteria. Sounds like if they tested commercial aircraft, we might all be riding Grayhoud. Now what i do know, 3 years reading this forum and getting all kinds of information, Guest invite to one Montana Mini Rally to listen and hear owners talking (The Good and Bad)up front about the unit, crawling all over them at showes, looking at other models till my eyes were dripping blood. Design Data of axle placement and weight distribution? Some enginner did the calcultions like he does for all the other Keystone products and i'm not getting my slip stick out to re-check his work. So what i do know, Basiclly a very good unit in the field of Fifth Wheel Trailers, meets my Dollar to Value test compared to other units and we like the 3400RL floor plan. So, never having owned a Fifth Wheel what am I going to do. Stay with the plan, buy a 3400RL and enjoy the country we live in and hopefully get to meet some of the Montana Family Members starting end of this year.

[sreigle]

Leaseit, I think you are making the decisions for the right reasons. And, having lived in our 3400 and towed it around the country I think you are making a good decision, as well. It truly is an easy towing fifthwheel. It just kinda sits back there and follows you wherever you go.