Better MPG and horsepower - Montana Owners Club

mustang92 · 07-31-2007, 04:14 PM

Is anyone using a "downloader" on their tow vehicle? I am looking at a product from Bully Dog that reprograms various components to increase hp and mpg. I have heard and read very positive reports, especially for diesels. I don't really need additional hp in my '06 Duramax, but claims of improving milage while towing 5-8mpg gets my attention! They also provide a free trial before you buy. Sounds tempting. Anyone familiar with this?

Charlie · 07-31-2007, 04:43 PM

First of all you must consider your warranty. This is a personal preference to install a chip. I have a chip on my F-250 7.3L. I feel that there is a benefit of additional HP and torque. It increased my solo mileage about 3mpg and towing maybe 1-2mpg. You will get lots of comments about the advantages and disadvantages.

HughM · 07-31-2007, 04:52 PM

If you do any alterations for power, you need a boost gauge and EGT gauge to watch your exhaust temps. They can rise quick on a altered diesel. And you sure don't want a turbo rebuild of approx. $3500.00. I've never found the need to boost hp. More mileage would be nice.
Hugh

Glenn and Lorraine · 07-31-2007, 05:59 PM

Do it and you will VOID your warranty no if's and's or but's PERIOD

mtnhntr · 07-31-2007, 08:29 PM

I just installed an Edge Evolution II in my 7.3 PSD. It is a single unit that mounts on the dash and plugs into your OBT port. It comes with a pyrometer for your EGT's and monitors 9 - 10 other parameters that you select. You can monitor up to 4 at one time. It has 3 programs that you can download to your truck's computer. One is a tow program that gets a 60 HP and 100 ft-lbs gain for the 7.3 PSD and also modifies the transmission shifting to better accomodate towing. There are 2 other higher horsepower programs that I doubt I will ever use. The whole thing costs just over $500 and can be installed by most DIYers.
I just got back from a 600 mile trip with the Monty and can say that I noticed an improvement in power with less downshifting compared to making the same trip before the Edge. I sense that fuel milage is a bit better, but it is hard to tell because of so many factors. Certainly it isn't grossly better. I really like the gauge function.
The 7.3 PSD is a good canidate for modding lightly, but I would leave the Duramax alone - at least until your warranty is over. I wouldn't even mod it then as it has plenty of power and I really doubt that you can get much of a fuel milage increase. I suggest going to the Duramax Forums web site and lurk there for a while.
Ken

SlickWillie · 08-01-2007, 03:42 AM

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

richfaa · 08-01-2007, 04:02 AM

A 5 to 8MPG increase in Fuel mileage???I would be looking for some very small print. Sounds to good to be true..Veryyyy suspicious

RonS · 08-01-2007, 05:41 AM

I went with the Hypertec programer on stage 2, for my 04 Chev dually duramax diesel. They advertize that it will not damage anything when towing. I then replaced my exhaust system went 4 inch, sounds nice and with the programer fun to drive. Would I recomend it - No but its fun to drive and sounds cool. Very little MPG improvement, but did I say fun to drive.

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-01-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

You can REPROGRAM the computer back to the original all you want or you can just leave the modules in. It doesn't really matter what you do the manufacturers, Ford, GM or Chrysler will know what you did. You can reprogram all you want BUT YOU CANNOT change the computers memory for what HAS BEEN done. It is there and the big 3 know how to find it and if they do find it say goodbye to your engine and transmission warranties.

SlickWillie · 08-01-2007, 08:36 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

You can REPROGRAM the computer back to the original all you want or you can just leave the modules in. It doesn't really matter what you do the manufacturers, Ford, GM or Chrysler will know what you did. You can reprogram all you want BUT YOU CANNOT change the computers memory for what HAS BEEN done. It is there and the big 3 know how to find it and if they do find it say goodbye to your engine and transmission warranties.

Please educate us and tell us where you get the info for the statement you make. Here's where my info comes from. I know three individuals very well (mechanic, parts, and former service writer for GM dealers) that say these programmers leave no trace. Now, if you go to the wrong dealer, and they suspect a programmer, they may try to BS you around. I would not be afraid to run the Edge, other than the previous mentioned problems, and I might end up with one of the other brands. If I lose my warranty, I can assure you I won't be BS'ed out of it.

Eagle Man · 08-01-2007, 09:39 AM

Not worth the warranty risk to me, I'm keeping mine 100% stock.

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-01-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

You can REPROGRAM the computer back to the original all you want or you can just leave the modules in. It doesn't really matter what you do the manufacturers, Ford, GM or Chrysler will know what you did. You can reprogram all you want BUT YOU CANNOT change the computers memory for what HAS BEEN done. It is there and the big 3 know how to find it and if they do find it say goodbye to your engine and transmission warranties.

Please educate us and tell us where you get the info for the statement you make. Here's where my info comes from. I know three individuals very well (mechanic, parts, and former service writer for GM dealers) that say these programmers leave no trace. Now, if you go to the wrong dealer, and they suspect a programmer, they may try to BS you around. I would not be afraid to run the Edge, other than the previous mentioned problems, and I might end up with one of the other brands. If I lose my warranty, I can assure you I won't be BS'ed out of it.

A VERY SIMPLE source.
Do some research with the Big 3 manufacturers themselves. In other words "Go to the horse's mouth". Research their entire website. It can be found and if you can't find the answer to your questions than contact them personally. "Go to the horse's mouth" and not the last thing over the fence.
Talk about BS? Well taking the word from a mechanic, parts man or (former) service writer carries absolutely no water with me and is just a lot of BS. It is the manufacturers that carries the warranty and the manufacturers that has the final say. Not the mechanic, the parts man nor the service writer. I doubt any of the 3 have any idea of how these computers even work muchless what information can be found in their memories. They can say all they want but I will be willing to bet the one thing they won't say is.. "Now if the manufacturer does void your warranty we will cover your expenses out of our own pockets".

PowellsMonty · 08-01-2007, 11:00 AM

I have personal experience with this and it will void any warantee you have left. The increase in milage is minimum. The increase in power can be felt but because I don't have enough money in my camping account to pay for rebuilds, I felt that it wasn't worth it.

old turbo · 08-01-2007, 11:07 AM

When you are getting a rebuild or repair on a under warranty product and it comes to a big money amount to the manufacturer, they put out the money not the dealer, you can bet they will send out a manufacturer rep. to check out the vehicle to ok the work. He will do whatever it takes to find out if it was altered or tampered with. The dealers do not sell after market go fasters to put on new vehicles so why would they want to fix one that has been altered at no cost to you? The manufacturer rep has the equipment and the knowledge to check into altered vehicles, these guys have been at this for years they have seen all the tricks and gagets.

SlickWillie · 08-01-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

You can REPROGRAM the computer back to the original all you want or you can just leave the modules in. It doesn't really matter what you do the manufacturers, Ford, GM or Chrysler will know what you did. You can reprogram all you want BUT YOU CANNOT change the computers memory for what HAS BEEN done. It is there and the big 3 know how to find it and if they do find it say goodbye to your engine and transmission warranties.

Please educate us and tell us where you get the info for the statement you make. Here's where my info comes from. I know three individuals very well (mechanic, parts, and former service writer for GM dealers) that say these programmers leave no trace. Now, if you go to the wrong dealer, and they suspect a programmer, they may try to BS you around. I would not be afraid to run the Edge, other than the previous mentioned problems, and I might end up with one of the other brands. If I lose my warranty, I can assure you I won't be BS'ed out of it.

A VERY SIMPLE source.
Do some research with the Big 3 manufacturers themselves. In other words "Go to the horse's mouth". Research their entire website. It can be found and if you can't find the answer to your questions than contact them personally. "Go to the horse's mouth" and not the last thing over the fence.
Talk about BS? Well taking the word from a mechanic, parts man or (former) service writer carries absolutely no water with me and is just a lot of BS. It is the manufacturers that carries the warranty and the manufacturers that has the final say. Not the mechanic, the parts man nor the service writer. I doubt any of the 3 have any idea of how these computers even work muchless what information can be found in their memories. They can say all they want but I will be willing to bet the one thing they won't say is.. "Now if the manufacturer does void your warranty we will cover your expenses out of our own pockets".

When is the last time you took your truck to GM Corporate for repairs? I've always had the mechanic or service manager hook the Tech II to my truck to check for codes or make corrections. I'm sure if you scatter the engine with the high hp settings, someone will take a look, but that is stupidity . Contact GM Corporate? Man, that is like asking my neighbor if I can sleep with his wife. No doubt what the answer would be.

Let me give you a little research to do. Search for the Coolmyduramax forums and read about this guy's battle with GM, which he won. Little doubt he used programmers.

SlickWillie · 08-01-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by old turbo

The dealers do not sell after market go fasters to put on new vehicles so why would they want to fix one that has been altered at no cost to you?

Various dealers do sell programmers. I'm not saying that corporate approves, just that they are available at some dealers.

richfaa · 08-01-2007, 12:30 PM

Warranties with auto manufacturers work no different that Warranties with Rv's. Example keystone warranties the unit for 1 year. Keystone pays the bill. The dealer may do the work but they get paid by Keystone.When our 3400 melted down in Quartzsite we had to wait for approval from Keystone before the dealer repaired anything. I am no expert on Auto warranties and I am sure there is someone here who IS. When warranty work is done on your truck the manufacturer pays the bill and gives the dealer the approval to do the work. If the individual feels the manufacturere will foot the bill while under warranty....their choice...

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-01-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

I'm just a little afraid of the modules that reprogram the ECM while my truck is under warranty. What happens if you loose the ability to put it back to the stock program on the side of the road. I sure don't want to tow it to a dealer I don't know with the ECM not stock. The Edge modules would be ideal, as they intercept the ECM signals and modify them, but the ones I have seen on the Duramax are mounted under the hood, and absorb a tremendous amount of heat resulting in quite a few failures.

You can REPROGRAM the computer back to the original all you want or you can just leave the modules in. It doesn't really matter what you do the manufacturers, Ford, GM or Chrysler will know what you did. You can reprogram all you want BUT YOU CANNOT change the computers memory for what HAS BEEN done. It is there and the big 3 know how to find it and if they do find it say goodbye to your engine and transmission warranties.

Please educate us and tell us where you get the info for the statement you make. Here's where my info comes from. I know three individuals very well (mechanic, parts, and former service writer for GM dealers) that say these programmers leave no trace. Now, if you go to the wrong dealer, and they suspect a programmer, they may try to BS you around. I would not be afraid to run the Edge, other than the previous mentioned problems, and I might end up with one of the other brands. If I lose my warranty, I can assure you I won't be BS'ed out of it.

A VERY SIMPLE source.
Do some research with the Big 3 manufacturers themselves. In other words "Go to the horse's mouth". Research their entire website. It can be found and if you can't find the answer to your questions than contact them personally. "Go to the horse's mouth" and not the last thing over the fence.
Talk about BS? Well taking the word from a mechanic, parts man or (former) service writer carries absolutely no water with me and is just a lot of BS. It is the manufacturers that carries the warranty and the manufacturers that has the final say. Not the mechanic, the parts man nor the service writer. I doubt any of the 3 have any idea of how these computers even work muchless what information can be found in their memories. They can say all they want but I will be willing to bet the one thing they won't say is.. "Now if the manufacturer does void your warranty we will cover your expenses out of our own pockets".

When is the last time you took your truck to GM Corporate for repairs? I've always had the mechanic or service manager hook the Tech II to my truck to check for codes or make corrections. I'm sure if you scatter the engine with the high hp settings, someone will take a look, but that is stupidity . Contact GM Corporate? Man, that is like asking my neighbor if I can sleep with his wife. No doubt what the answer would be.

Let me give you a little research to do. Search for the Coolmyduramax forums and read about this guy's battle with GM, which he won. Little doubt he used programmers.

The day I start believing what some "GUY" on some forum claims to have happened to him is the day I start buying ocean front property in Arizona.

For the rest of this answer I will merely quote old turbo...

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by old turbo

When you are getting a rebuild or repair on a under warranty product and it comes to a big money amount to the manufacturer, they put out the money not the dealer, you can bet they will send out a manufacturer rep. to check out the vehicle to ok the work. He will do whatever it takes to find out if it was altered or tampered with. The dealers do not sell after market go fasters to put on new vehicles so why would they want to fix one that has been altered at no cost to you? The manufacturer rep has the equipment and the knowledge to check into altered vehicles, these guys have been at this for years they have seen all the tricks and gagets.

Enough said. If I haven't made my point with you I never will. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree

SlickWillie · 08-01-2007, 12:59 PM

Folks, I don't even run a programmer, never have, but won't say I never will. All I am saying is I don't think it is chiseled in stone that if you have a programmer, all dealers will void your warranty as some people on here would have you believe.

Warranty issues are handled different ways by different dealers. I had a part missing on my truck. The service manager goes to a new truck and pulls a part and puts it on my truck. "Much easier and quicker", he says. He then ordered a part for the other truck. When I had an issue with my truck in the RGV, I had to argue them down that the part installed was a warranty issue under the emissions warranty. I prevailed. Saved me about $360 best I remember.

This is my last post on the issue. Good luck if you run a programmer. Don't let'em BS you down.

mmrxboss · 08-01-2007, 08:02 PM

I have an '03 Chevy Crew Cab Long Bed and tow a '04 Monty 3650RL. AND.. I have the Edge power unit with the in-cab control head. It takes about 1 minute to disconnect from the engine wiring (connectors plug in in-line with the factory plugs). I do not use it for the extra horse power (nice, heck yes!) but rather for the various changes the Edge unit makes to the engine/transmission system. I feel that my rig pulls easier with less shifting issues on road grades, etc than without the chip. The Edge unit allows the 'Boost Level' to be changed on the fly from the control head. The head also allows for the realtime monitoring of 4 engine/transmission specs: The main 2 I watch are EGT (exhaust gas temp) and transmission temp. My dealer's svc manager saw the Edge unit and asked me why I had it. When I explained about the shift changes he just nodded his head and walked away. I make sure that I unplug the unit prior to having any diagnostic work done on the engine - un plug not remove from engine bay. I have never had service problems.

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