Pin weight of 3400 - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

Bill Frisbee · 02-07-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Mudchief

My 3400 empty with no water in the tanks was 2861 on the pin and 10420 on the 2 axels. I also have the generator that adds weight.

??? This only adds to the confusion for me. The spec sheet says the 2007 3400 weighs 11,800 lbs with 2000 lbs on the pin and, presumably, 9800 lbs. on the axles. If the generator weighs 300 lbs., that leaves 2561 lbs (+ or - a few lbs) on the pin and a total weight of nearly 13,000 lbs (10420 + 2561). If your 3400 is empty (and extracting the weight of the generator), that means your empty 3400RL weighs nearly 1200 lbs more than the empty 3400RL that rolled out the factory door. That is quite a difference.

Bill

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 07:38 AM

I honestly don't know the answer. I'll retry it doing it with the truck and post the results.

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 07:46 AM

Bill, these are my scale results:

Axles (both) 8,640
Pin 3,120
Gross - 11,760

Ironically, the Gross is right on! Otherwise, there is about 1,000 pounds I'm showing more toward the front than the specs call out.

Brad

Bill Frisbee · 02-07-2007, 08:07 AM

This is getting interesting and a lot more fun that grading poorly written papers! I just called Keystone and no one with whom I spoke had a definite answer to the "landing gear versus pin weight" question. However, the person with whom I spoke did agree that the further you are away from the center of mass, the easier it is to lift a given weight. Lifting 500 lbs straight up would be impossible for most of us ... but if we put the five hundred lbs on a board (or lever), stood several feet away, and lifted the end of the lever, we could lift the 500 lbs. Ergo, our conclusion was that the actual measured weight on the pin should be less than the actual weight measured on the landing gear because the pin is farther away from the center of mass.

This argument is probably worth exactly what you paid for it - NOTHING. But it is a cold, boring Winter afternoon and I have limited options!

Bill

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 08:16 AM

Bill, really - I think you are on to something!

Because I used the landing gear instead of the pin, wouldn't it be possible that the landing gear (midway between pin and axles) was actually sharing some of the weight that would normally be placed on the axles if it were hooked up to the truck?

Just from the leverage perspective you are talking about, I'll bet that a true pin weight would actually show another 1,000 lbs back on my axles.

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 09:22 AM

Bill,

You're theory is correct. I just made a model of the fifth wheel trailer using a roll of drawings, a box, and a postal scale. The weight increases dramatically as the scale is moved closer to the axle, even though the total weight remains the same.

My gross weight for my Monty is accurate, but the pin weight was NOT correctly measured using the landing gear.

My apologies for alarming anyone

.

Brad

Connorsmom · 02-07-2007, 10:10 AM

So...how do I know which axles I have...are they the 7000 everyone is talking about...or the other ones?? Oye...I am So confused by all this stuff!!

Jan

mailmanguy · 02-07-2007, 10:38 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Connorsmom

So...how do I know which axles I have...are they the 7000 everyone is talking about...or the other ones?? Oye...I am So confused by all this stuff!!

Jan

Howdy!

The sticker on the outside of your unit (under the bedroom slide) will show you many figures including your axle ratings. Here's mine.

Mudchief · 02-07-2007, 12:05 PM

Bill, Keystone weights are for a normal equipted unit. When you add dual pane windows,awning toppers,washer/dryer,generator,dishwasher it is going to weigh a little more.

exav8tr · 02-07-2007, 01:23 PM

This sounds like another suggestion for Keystone: After you assemble these beauties you could weigh them with all the additions and supply a certified weight for each unit. This sure would clear up some of the questions we have....

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 01:45 PM

Wonder if the transporter gets taxed on weight for delivery? If so, he probably knows exactly what the weight is from the factory.

Cat320 · 02-07-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Connorsmom

So...how do I know which axles I have...are they the 7000 everyone is talking about...or the other ones?? Oye...I am So confused by all this stuff!!

Jan

As noted, that information is on the sticker, left front corner of the trailer. I verified mine...there is a sticker on each axle with the same information on it, pulled one off and filed it with the rest of the 'important' papers.

bigred715 · 02-07-2007, 06:20 PM

Thank you everyone for your pin weights. That was good response to my question. I've decided even if I COULD afford the 3400 my 3500 D/A SRW couldn't pull it and be within the numbers. This tells me that those of you who use the 2500 are all overweight on your pin weight. I know that they all pull fine and stop fine, its just the matter of being legal which may never be a problem. It will probably be forever before they start checking us for weights since there are an increasing amount of PUC trucks to keep up with. Whatever works for you and you are comfortable with. Thanks again for your replies.

bigred715

Wrenchtraveller · 02-07-2007, 06:48 PM

The only way to check your pin weight is to weigh your truck's rear axle with the trailer on tow. Go drop the trailer and go back and weigh your truck's rear axle without the trailer. Do the math. Of course the landing gear weight will be different from the pin, it is four feet behind the pin.

bsmeaton · 02-07-2007, 08:10 PM

And exactly what "math" formula do you use Don?

C'mon - what may be obvious to you may not be so obvious to me. As soon as questions arose about my pin weight, it was quickly figured out through MOC input that my method at the scale was wrong and I admitted it. Just here to learn like everybody else.

I did learn something for my $8.00 at the scale that I'll bet not too many people knew - the weight on the landing gear for an 07 3400 is 3,120 lbs. Just try and find that in the specs

!

Brad

Wrenchtraveller · 02-08-2007, 01:49 AM

I apologize if my post came across as a little abrupt. Not my intension at all. We are all here to learn and share our experience.

The math I use is this. I weigh the front truck axle and the rear axle of my truck.
I add them together to get the weight of my truck. I then hook up the Montana, drive to the scales again and weigh the front axle of the truck, the rear axle of the truck and the Montana axles. The total of all three axles is the combined weight. The weight of my two truck axles will give me the gross vehicle weight of my truck. If I want to find the pin weight , I take the weight of the truck rear axle with the Montana on and I subtract the weight of the unloaded rear truck axle and this difference is the pin weight. Using the landing gear on the scale will give a higher weight than the pin because the landing gear are lifting more of the trailer.

The Government scales here in BC are left on after hours for the public to use for free. This is very convenient but also gives residents of BC no excuse for not knowing their specs. Our auto insurance is also government owned and by no means free, and they want you within your weight specs or else you don't have insurance.

The only weight spec that is easy to enforce is your GVWR. This is posted on a sticker on the driver's door. The combined rating (GCWR) is only available from the manufacturer and not nearly as easy to enforce. If a person is comfortable being over his GVWR, he should be equally comfortable being over his combined rating.

sreigle · 02-08-2007, 02:23 AM

If I may add a comment, it's important to use the weight of both the front and the rear axle when determining pinweight. Sometimes some of the weight is transferred onto or off of the front axle.

On my truck, dropping the pin on the hitch lightens the front axle load by 20 lbs, telling me the pin center is slightly aft of the axle center (not what I like to see). On the prior truck, the front axle picked up 40 lbs when hitched.

So, pinweight is actually the difference between the truck weight (adding both axles), hitched and unhitched.

Bigred715, we had a discussion awhile back about the legal pros and cons. In the US, none of us in this forum has ever reported being checked and someone who is or was one of those who operate scales said they do not check GVWR on private vehicles in the US. They only check for axles over 26,000 lbs. If they did check gvwr, there would be many, many subject to fines. My attorney told me it is a guideline for private vehicles, not a law. But if I had an accident proven attributable to being overweight, I might have some liability. I've never heard of that happening but suppose it could. My insurance agent told me they would pay the claim but they might consider canceling the policy after paying the claim, if attributable to being over GVWR. To me it's a non-issue. I understand that in Canada it's a whole different ballgame. You still have to do what makes you comfortable.

exav8tr · 02-08-2007, 04:17 AM

Is there a listing, by state, of what the state law says about the weight issue? It appears that some folks think it is illegal to be overweight. I would like to see something in writing by state, if it is illegal. Also, does anyone actually know someone who was ticketed for being overweight? Does anyone know someone who was cited as causing an accident because of being overweight? What are the consequences of being overweight? Can anyone answer any of these questions?

It seems that the weight issue is mostly speculation, at this point, as to what could happen if overweight and not based on fact.

I am not trying to be ornery. I am just starting out in this lifestyle and I have many questions that I look to you folks for answers from. Please don't throw rocks at me for asking these seemingly tough questions.....

Thanks for your honest replies.....

sreigle · 02-08-2007, 02:17 PM

I haven't seen nor heard of any of those things and can only tell you, as I did above, what I was told by my attorney and my insurance agent. Last I read, there are over 2 million fulltimers and snowbirds in this country and I sure don't hear about any tickets or accidents nor even broken axles or bearings or lots of tire blowouts from being over GVWR, etc. Shoot, we put 70k miles on the last set of tires and not a single blowout.

keham · 02-08-2007, 02:29 PM

In Iowa if you weigh more then the weight listed for license. They can fine you. Now do they weigh? maybe 1% If that. What you have to watch for now is all the county and city's have there own roving truck police I call them manly they are for inspecting commercial and CLD type. But they can stop any one who they think is over weight CARS, TRUCKS with bed campers or trailers (5th). So if you look over and ya pass some hot shot, mad cause he has to work that weekend or holiday ya never know. I checked my registration and they had 4 tons. Truck CVWR is 9900. so for 15 bucks more had it raised to 5 ton. with MY trailer and loaded it weighs 9780 so now i have the right license on now. So there is diff laws. some mostly commercial and then that little used one of Vehicle registration weight! and if over and ya can be fined. Days of just the fixed weigh stations they just did not bother you unless you were tail dragging with head light in the tree. But with these new easy to use Mobile weigh mats. And now the county's and city with there own inspectors anything can happen now. Yes my brother was weighted by one in Nov and was get this 25 lbs to spare. so I guess what I am saying make sure your registration covers the max weight not some lower weight like mine was.

Ken

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