F450

[milsutter]

Anyone have a ford or dodge 450/4500? What are your impressions? What kind of fuel mileage are you getting, pulling and unloaded?
I have a 2007 chevy 3500 DRW, diesel, pulling a 3750FL, 39+ ft; thinking of upgrading to a 450/4500.

[BrokenWallet]

I have a 2013 Ram 3500 DRW and it is more than enough truck. It tows my Montana 3790RD quite well. As far as the mileage i'm getting 10.6 towing and 15 empty

[bigskyjimmy]

Why waste your money????? I have a 2007 LBZ Duramax and it hauls my 2015 3735MK great so why do you want to upgrade??? if you want more power get a EFI Live tuner with a Idaho Rob tow tune and call it good and what else i did was to install a Hayden 2886 Severe heavy duty clutch fan and Transyn synthetic trans fluid and rock and roll IMO Do NOT get rid of your LBZ Duramax it is the best Duramax Ever made but if you do decide to sell your LBZ you will have no problem finding a buyer

[K0LCB]

I towed my 3750 with a 3599 Ram easily

[1retired06]

Having a 450 would be great, and if you want one, you should get it. Heavier chassis, bigger rims, bigger calipers. However the drive train on a 450 is the same as a 350 and 250 (Ford) and a 350 dually has more than enough tow capacity for most fivers, at 22+K. For the heavier Mobile Suites, New Horizons, a 450 is probably a better choice.

[milsutter]

Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate the input.

[DuneBuggyBuilder]

While the allure of a new truck is powerful, be sure you understand what you are getting into. I can only speak to the F450/F350 world but I suspect the 4500 world is similar.

The F450 is a heavier truck compared to the F350 due to its beefier chassis, bigger rims, and bigger calipers. The F450 also has a much better turning radius than any of the F350s due to its larger cut angle. Its towing capacity of 31,200 is more than the F350 dually at 26,500. (reference http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ations/towing/ ) As 1retired06 pointed out the engine and drive line are the same throughout the Super Duty family.

The downsides to the F450 are not all obvious.

The increased weight of the truck, which allows larger towing capacities, reduces its carry capacity. The F450 has a maximum cargo capacity of 5,300 vs. the F350's 6,460 (reference http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/ ). This probably is not a problem towing a Montana but it is hard to understand how a F450 can tow a 30K 5th wheel, where the pin weight is normally 20-25% of the gross weight, without exceeding the payload rating.

The F450 comes with a 4:30 rear axle ratio and pretty much guarantees an 8-9 MPG experience when towing. The 6.7L engine's sweet spot for max torque (and mileage) is around 15,500 RPMs which, as I recall from riding in one, translates to a speed of 55-58 MPH.

Lastly, as a Californian you should check with your insurance company and understand the DMV/CHP's license issues. The F450 is *NOT* rated as a pickup by most insurance companies. Rather it is a considered a true commercial work truck. The price and availability of insurance may be different from what you currently pay. Similarly, the DMV/CHP also consider the F450 to *NOT* be a pickup. Legally, you are required to acquire a PUC registration, pay weight fees, and stop at all weigh stations (where the weigh master is likely to not be pleased). Artemus Gordon hs posted previously about his experiences with a F450 in CA.
http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/...ad.php?t=57489

I know of others who live in CA, have a F450 and have chosen to ignore the DMV/CHP requirements. It doesn't appear to be a high profile issue with them but you never know when that could change.

[brenkco]

DuneBuggyBuilder has it right, but just a few points of clarification. The CA DMV states that anything over 11,500 (plus a few other criterion) is NOT a pickup and must stop at scales. This would also include a F350 DUALLY too. So from that stand point, there is no difference between the F350 or F450. Legally, both must stop at the scales but practically, no one does.

The weight fees and PUC filings are only required when hauling other than the RV. That includes firewood, furniture, etc.

As far as insurance, many companies have underwriting standards on personal auto policies that limit the largest pickup to an F350, some an F450. The options, as stated, are to go with a commercial auto policy OR an RV policy when insured in conjunction with the 5th wheel. Prices can vary a great deal.

BTW, I am one that has an F450 and choose to ignore the requirements to stop at scales. Again, no difference if I had a F350 DRW.

Ken

[commish]

We moved up to a GMC C5500 (2ton) about three years ago, from a HD2500 Chev. The 2500 was a gas 8.1 and the 5500 is a Duromax.
Our fuel milage improved from 8mpg to 11 towing and the driving comfort doubled. Both are crew cabs. We are towing a Montana 3295RK with ease.

[TLightning]

You have to be very careful using the payload chart noted in an earlier post. Many times the reason for the huge payload is that the engine is a gasser...much lighter than the PSD. Plus, with the gasser, the GCWR usually goes down.

[2007dura]

quote:Originally posted by DuneBuggyBuilder

While the allure of a new truck is powerful, be sure you understand what you are getting into. I can only speak to the F450/F350 world but I suspect the 4500 world is similar.

The F450 is a heavier truck compared to the F350 due to its beefier chassis, bigger rims, and bigger calipers. The F450 also has a much better turning radius than any of the F350s due to its larger cut angle. Its towing capacity of 31,200 is more than the F350 dually at 26,500. (reference http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...ations/towing/ ) As 1retired06 pointed out the engine and drive line are the same throughout the Super Duty family.

The downsides to the F450 are not all obvious.

The increased weight of the truck, which allows larger towing capacities, reduces its carry capacity. The F450 has a maximum cargo capacity of 5,300 vs. the F350's 6,460 (reference http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty...tions/payload/ ). This probably is not a problem towing a Montana but it is hard to understand how a F450 can tow a 30K 5th wheel, where the pin weight is normally 20-25% of the gross weight, without exceeding the payload rating.

The F450 comes with a 4:30 rear axle ratio and pretty much guarantees an 8-9 MPG experience when towing. The 6.7L engine's sweet spot for max torque (and mileage) is around 15,500 RPMs which, as I recall from riding in one, translates to a speed of 55-58 MPH.

The reason for the low payload capacity is staying in the 14,000 lb. rating to keep it listed as a class 3 truck. The F-450 runs a Dana S130 axle even though Ford literature shows a Dana S110. This was proven on the Ford-trucks forum with members taking pictures of the axle with the plate on the axle showing it as a 130. Here is a good video that does a explanation of the 450.

youtube.com/watch?v=N_UvmU6XMXE

You have your RPM's wrong. Peak torque is achieved around 1600 RPM's and horsepower around 2800 RPM's.

The F-350 also comes with the Max Tow package which gives you the wide track front axle and the 4:30 gearing.

If you are going to order one, better hurry. The order boards are shutting down end of this month for the 16's with the 17's order board starting middle of next month. No numbers for HP or torque released yet on 17's, or the price.

[Artemus Gordon]

Have 2014 F450. It's a great Truck. No recalls, no issues in the 45,000 miles I have covered thus far. The truck rides well and has a very tight turning radius, more than the F350 or F250. I highly recommend the truck to any prospective buyer. I want to add the fact it's resale value is fantastic.

In Ca we pay the same license fees as any 3500 model. While both are considered heavy duty trucks, the F450 is an excellent choice for hauling RVs of any application you might I counter!

[JandC]

I looked at a F450 and talked to the owner last year while waiting to get my oil changed. He was there getting his truck serviced. I was extremely impressed with his truck. At the time I had been considering moving into a dually so I began researching F450 prices. New or used, they are expensive! I agree with Michael that they have fantastic resale value, so it really makes the initial purchase price almost a non issue.

[MARK A]

quote:Originally posted by JandC

I looked at a F450 and talked to the owner last year while waiting to get my oil changed. He was there getting his truck serviced. I was extremely impressed with his truck. At the time I had been considering moving into a dually so I began researching F450 prices. New or used, they are expensive! I agree with Michael that they have fantastic resale value, so it really makes the initial purchase price almost a non issue.

I was looking the other day, there is a dual wheel fender for short bed fords like ours. They bolt on look OEM and a set of wheels and tires you're good! A dual wheel pickup and the short wheelbase we enjoy while not towing.

Mark

[milsutter]

Thanks everyone for all the info. After reading all the posts, I think I'll stick with the Chevy, at least until we decide we want a heavier trailer.