Reality VS Marketing

[richfaa]

Was at my Local Ford dealer to day to purchase the Ford ESP plan but that is a different saga.

While there I noted a shinny 2011 F-250 6.7L,4X4. On the window in huge yellow dealer printed letters was.... This truck...Tow rating....24,400Lbs... WOW.. said I that is better than my 08 F-350 Dually..Then I opened the drivers door and looked at the stickers'

GVWR 10K Cargo capacity 2496lbs..so Ford is telling me that truck weighs 10K - 2496 or 7404Lbs and that is probably close as my truck was only 30lbs off on my numbers.. Hey.. That means I can pull a 16,996lbs 5th wheel and it will pull it fine.
(24,400- 7404= 16,996 lbs) That is marketing at its best.


Reality The truck weighs 7404 add two people, full fuel, hitch assorted camping stuff.. My truck gained 600lbs so lets use that number.. the truck now weighs 7404 + 600lbs = 8004lbs and the cargo capacity is now 1996 lbs. So I can hook up my 14K 3400 and I am under the 24,400Lbs. Wait my pin weight is 2915lbs...
Never mind that....it will pull it fine..

I related that to my salesperson and when I looked into his eyes I saw the back of his head.

Now we know why we see what we see out there.....Marketing..

a 3/4 ton 2011 ford diesel has a tow rating of 24,400lbs what more do I need to know...

[Art-n-Marge]

Rich,

Tow your 5er backwards... That is, weld a tongue hitch onto the rear of the trailer, put an extension on the trailer cord, turn that sucker around and tow it backwards. This way there is only 10% of the weight of the trailer on the hitch and you are still within the tow rating. You're probably too long to go anywhere, but at least you are weight compliant...

The only trouble you'll have is dragging the front on driveways and dips.

[TLightning]

The true tow rating cannot be computed without the GCWR...which we do not have in this case.

[richfaa]

The tow rating was stated to be 24,400lbs. That would be GCWR. No we do not have the actual GCWR. I was attempting to make a point of how marketing can lead a unknowing buyer astray.

[steves]

Did you buy it?

[richfaa]

If I needed a truck to haul around groceries I might.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The tow rating was stated to be 24,400lbs. That would be GCWR. No we do not have the actual GCWR. I was attempting to make a point of how marketing can lead a unknowing buyer astray.

No wonder I could not understand your numbers and wondered how the tow rating could be so high. If they are claiming the tow rating and the GCWR are the same, Ford is really playing with the numbers. Since the formula for true tow weight is GCWR - TV weight when ready to tow, the only way it will tow 24,400 is with the TV weighing 0.

24,000 - 0 = 24,000.

[Art-n-Marge]

Okay, real simple and all kidding aside, you can now go after the dealer for fraud, false advertising or whatever you want to call this WRONG-doing!

Using this table for the actual weight rating facts (Ford tow ratings for F-250 through F-450 Conventional and Fifth wheel):

http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/s...ations/towing/

... you will find that a Ford F450 has a tow rating of 24,400 and a CGVWR of 33,000 lbs as a fifth wheel rating and NOT an F-250 of any kind. In fact, the maximum CGVWR of ANY F-250, the best it can get, is 23,500#, or 900lbs under the posted sign Rich describes.

This marketing mumbo jumbo is just plain ILLEGAL and MISSTATED. Rich should get down there, take pictures and go to the attorney general. Maybe he can get a new truck FREE out of it.

I was kidding around earlier because it was SO out of whack, I figured towing a fifth wheel backwards would help with the wackiness. Now with these valid discussions on how wrong it is to play with a public that is already estimated at 40% of all rigs are overweight, THIS dealer's stupidity does NOT help. NOW I'm miffed about it.

[richfaa]

The big yellow numbers on the window were put there by the dealer and when I saw them I had trouble breathing for about 5 minutes. I got my sales person and told him that number was BS and the buyer was being misled but I was unable to explain the numbers to them I even offered that if anyone came in looking to buy a big truck for towing that they call me and I would be glad to explain the numbers.. Somehow I doubt Will do that...but...The yellow numbers are gone.. The buyer needs to do their own homework. The person who did that number did not know the difference between tow rating and GCWR and there are many buyers that also don't. I did not look it up but my guess is the GCWR of that truck is 24,400lbs

[Art-n-Marge]

Good! At least the sign is down...

Rich, according to the link I provided the GCWR of a 2011 F250 ranges from 19,000 to 23,500 and the tow rating maximums are 12,000 to 14,000 for conventional towing and 12,200 to 16,500 depending on Engine, 4x2 or 4x4, axle ratio and cab size. There was no mention of short bed or long bed. None of these numbers come close to towing 24,400 for this model.

ONLY a Ford F-450 lists that number and is only offered in one configuration - 6.7PSD, Crew Cab, 4x4, 4.3 Axle ratio, GCWR of 33,000 lbs, 16,000 conventional tow and 24400 5TH Wheel tow. What a beast.

[5ER]

When I bought my first F250 the salesman told me he didn't know anything about towing a trailer. He sold mostly cars. I think that many car salesman don't know how much their trucks can pull because they have never owned one or have never towed a trailer. If they sell them they should do more homework.

[Slufoot733]

OK, let's see if I got this: Cargo capacity 2496lbs/=+7404 divided by 24,400lbs multiplied by F450 taken by the square root of 4X4 4:10 minus the angle of the deflection, supplimented by EU2000s...................I'm getting a headache .

[richfaa]

Not to worry........ It will pull it fine.....

[KathyandDave]

For our Sierra, I found that the manual shows pretty clearly what the towing capacity is, including permutations of body type (even vans!) and the door sticker shows clearly what the axle capacities are.

[Red939]

quote:Originally posted by KathyandDave

For our Sierra, I found that the manual shows pretty clearly what the towing capacity is, including permutations of body type (even vans!) and the door sticker shows clearly what the axle capacities are.

Here's a suggestion. Take that towing capacity noted in the manual and subtract the GCWR from that number. Then try to figure out how you can tow with the number you just came up with...which is the truck's weight. Can't be done with a 5th wheel.

[KathyandDave]

Red939: if I understand what you said and turn it around, then subtracting the track's weight from the towing capacity will give the weight of things to be carried and/or towed, which works out to less than the 3400RL? I haven't got the manual handy, but I'll check it out this weekend.

[richfaa]

There is towing capacity provided by the manufacturer and varies depending on the truck and options (rear diff for example). There is GCWR ..that is total capacity truck and camper. Example my 08 F-350 Ford has a tow capacity of 15,300lbs and a GCWR of 23,500lbs. There is GVWR of the truck that is what you can carry IN the truck including the weight of the truck,that is also were the PIN weight goes. My..tow capacity is 15,300lbs....My GCWR is 23,500lbs..My truck weighs ready to tow..9200lbs... so 23,500lbs less the truck weight since we are also towing that is 14,300lbs which is the max my 3400 can weigh and be within the 23,500lbs GCWR..The 3400 is rated at 15,500lbs but I can not weigh that much.. Now don't forget the GVWR of the truck.. Mine is 13,000 lbs but the actual truck weight is 9200 lbs 13,000 less 9200lbs leaves 3800 lbs for additional Cargo capacity which would be pin weight.my pin weight is 2915 so we are good. Oh the trucks rated CC is 4268 so we are well within everything.... Don't forget the tire load ratings of both the truck and camper...So many numbers.


So the trucks actual weight ready to tow..less the GCWR will be the max weight you can tow. In my case 23,500 lbs GCWR less 9200 lbs actual truck weight = 14,300 lbs left for the 3400 and all in it

The trucks actual weight less the stated truck GVWR will equal the cargo capacity you have left for the pin weight. In my case..trucks actual weight 9200 lbs less the trucks GVWR 13,000lbs = 3800lbs left for pin weight.. remember the trucks statewd CC was 4268.......empty..no hitch, no people, no fuel, no stuff..


Do the math and see what comes out..

[mopar1]

You should have bought a F150 right. They weigh less

[pineranch]

I found out soon after joining the MOC that the "HOT BUTTON ISSUE" was trucks and weights. It never seems to have an end or resolution. My suggestion is for all that lose sleep over the weight of their unit should visit a Freightline dealer and buy one. Remember, no matter what truck we buy, one of us (wife) will find a way to load it over spec.

[richfaa]

All that is needed is a little home work then some addition, subtraction, multiplication and the numbers are there. It is no big deal at all.