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02-08-2007, 01:57 PM
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#21
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sulphur Springs
Posts: 748
M.O.C. #2220
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Let me give a lesson in diesel engines. I work on and rebuild engines in big trucks and heavy equipment. A common Cat 3406E engine puts out up to 600 HP from the factory. These engines weigh more than our whole pick up's. So they put a engine in our little trucks that has to weigh as little as possible for a light truck suspension to hold it off the ground. So they shave from the complete structure of the engine everywhere possible, add enough HP to be competetive, and perform the work like pulling RV's ect. And yet hold together. Needless to say the margine is pretty minimal. Add a performance chip and now we are beyond design specifications. Needless to say I am not a fan of performance chips. If you modify beyond specifications you should be responsibile for any repairs...Sorry. I used to have a Automotive business and engine building operation. I would set up a engine and people would have me constantly doing WARRANTY work because they just could not leave it as it was. Playing with fuel pressures, changing timeing, fiddleing with carbureators and on and on. But yet it was my problem. Do I seem a bit testy...you bet!!! Between bad checks and defending myself from bogus waranty work I was put out of business. And also the reason I left California. If you take it on yourself to change something, take the responsibility as well, ie: Pay for your own mistakes.
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02-08-2007, 02:21 PM
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#22
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PowellsMonty
I think I heard somewhere that you can't erase the computers clear of chip modifications in the newer Fords by disconnecting the battery.
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Along the same lines, I also read somewhere that either the current trucks (all mfrs), or in the very near future, the computers will be able to record that the programming was changed in an unauthorized manner and that indicator will not be accessible to aftermarket programmers. I only read this, I do not know it for fact. Can anyone confirm that or did anyone else read the same thing?
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02-08-2007, 02:31 PM
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#23
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sulphur Springs
Posts: 748
M.O.C. #2220
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That is how commercial engines are already. Every time the CPU is acessed it is logged. On Cat engines to be able to change any performance parameters you must enter a PIN code only available from CAT. It also loggs who acessed the CPU. Pickup engines are nearly there. And disconnecting the battery on newer engines does not erase the trouble logg.
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02-08-2007, 02:35 PM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Caldwell
Posts: 825
M.O.C. #4855
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My diesel mechanic said that the new Chev and Ford computers retain memory of any changes and that disconnecting the batteries will not
"reset" the memory. My Chevrolet service guy said the same thing, soemtime ago when I wasw considering "chipping" my Chevy. I have since decided not to, because the Chevy has more than sufficient power for all my towing needs.
I did, however, put in firestone airbags to bring the spring capabilities and rear axle up to one ton specs.
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02-09-2007, 12:43 AM
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#25
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
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I was also told this by my GMC dealer.
I quote nailbender's earlier reply...
Quote:
quote:"we know what you are doing, and even after the equipment is removed, the information is still stored in the computer"
and rickety's reply...
"and that disconnecting the batteries will not "reset" the memory." KEYWORD being NOT
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Not my dealer's exact words but very very close.
Funny thing is I tend to believe what the engine/tranny manufacturers have to say. In my opinion they are the TRUE EXPERTS and it is those EXPERTS that make the decision as to what is or isn't covered under THEIR warranty and not some curbside Internet mechanic who can barely comprehend his laptop muchless his engine's computer.
It is your TV and you have a right to do whatever you want to that TV BUT when you void the warranty it is also your problem when it comes to footing the bill.
Sorry if I offended some "curbside Internet mechanic" but as I said before.. I'm just telling it like it is!!"
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02-09-2007, 02:10 AM
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#26
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Haldimand County
Posts: 2,413
M.O.C. #122
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All of which makes me wonder how long before law enforcement people start looking at the computer to prove that you were speeding. (Of course, I never speed, so that is no problem for me )
Like Glen, I tend to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought. Chevs, and I think other brands as well, all have sufficient power for our needs these days.
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02-09-2007, 03:12 AM
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#27
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Malta
Posts: 3,075
M.O.C. #607
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it seems like they look for any excuse to void warrenties now.
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02-09-2007, 03:14 AM
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#28
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by OntMont
All of which makes me wonder how long before law enforcement people start looking at the computer to prove that you were speeding. (Of course, I never speed, so that is no problem for me )
Like Glen, I tend to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought. Chevs, and I think other brands as well, all have sufficient power for our needs these days.
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John, there was a tv article about this on one of the local news stations just the other day. The technology apparently is there, now, in quite a few vehicles. Ford was the one they were talking about but I'm sure the other mfrs have it, too, or will shortly.
As you have found with yours, mine has more than enough power to handle the load and keep me satisfied. I agree all three mfrs' diesel trucks have plenty of power.
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02-09-2007, 04:22 AM
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#29
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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Well I know for a fact that my 96 Ford can be cleared by removing the batterys, sorry for all you newer models that cant do that, and I dont have a warintee any way It's 11 years old now so I have nothing to worry about except to drive the beast. .
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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02-09-2007, 08:01 AM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,696
M.O.C. #5751
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I go back to my original comment...isn't 360 hp and 650 lbs of torque enough...even the older engines crank out 300/600, why bother with the installation hassle or take the chance of damaging your truck and/or voiding the warranty?
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02-09-2007, 10:27 AM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mayville
Posts: 629
M.O.C. #2486
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In Diesel Truck Magazine after market parts has been a hot topic. It should also be noted that the value of older trucks will go up because they will be like the hot rods of the 60's and 70's. Remember when you could change parts to make it go faster or add more power,or add a part that was better than the original? Now you have the throw away car. The mechanics are just parts changers,and the car is just junk at the end of its time. The new Diesel pickups will be just that. The dealer wants it back so he can over charge for warranty work to pay for the fancy building. The warranty work cost is already fixed into the price of the vehicle,if you have to use it good for you, if you do not its extra money for the mfrs. I have a 2001 Dodge that I have replaced some thing with after market that were made in the USA or Canada. I do not want to buy from a Dodge dealer who will hand me a part made in Mexico or China. The things that I replaced were not broke but I felt they would improve the quality and performnce of my truck .
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02-09-2007, 12:16 PM
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#32
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Cat320
I go back to my original comment...isn't 360 hp and 650 lbs of torque enough...even the older engines crank out 300/600, why bother with the installation hassle or take the chance of damaging your truck and/or voiding the warranty?
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Cat, you're exactly right. Most of the trucks have enough horsepower and torque. But there are times when we've been in places where I needed the confidence that my truck was going to respond quickly and it does with the Banks system. We've been in places where other trucks couldn't go with their rigs and I know it was because I had the extra power and torque. As I previously said in this thread, when I had some problems with my truck I took it into a Ford dealership without disconnecting anything or trying to hide anything and the dealership did the repairs under warranty even with the Banks power pack installed. If I hadn't done the research before I had the Banks installed showing that it wouldn't void my warranty, I wouldn't have had it done.
Orv
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02-09-2007, 12:41 PM
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#33
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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The warranty, at least for my 05 F-350 clearly states that that Add on's will /may void the warranty. The comes from FOMOCO not the dealer. That the dealer may or may not do warranty work is up to the dealer's policy..You can be neary 100% sure that when the dealer submitted the Warranty invoice to FOMOCO he did not report any add on's that may be in violation of the Warranty. Does anyone have fist hand evidence of a FOMOCO factory rep..looking at a failed motor, xmittion, etc, seeing that there is a add on.. and approving the repair.
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02-09-2007, 02:31 PM
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#34
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Glendale
Posts: 1,219
M.O.C. #635
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Seems like this is the most over analyzed topic on the forum. It comes up about every three weeks. It is sort of like the "my god is better than your god" arguements. Bottom line, it is just a matter of personal choice. For my part, I have done a risk/reward calculation and concluded I would appreciate a programmer. But, then, I am an admitted horsepower junky. I refuse to bore you with all of my rationalizations; my apologies to those who feel so passionately that your different view is the only one likely to be right ( notice, I got to use a semicolon again). I made my decision and am proud to say I am willing to pay the consequences if that trivial probability should occur. In the meantime, "HORSEPOWER RULES". heh, heh, heh........
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02-11-2007, 03:17 AM
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#35
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sulphur Springs
Posts: 748
M.O.C. #2220
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I agree with you Dave. And applaud the fact that you will pay the consequences, as most hotrodders and HP junkies from the begining have done. But what I am seeing here is some folks wanting warranty after they have pushed their engines beyond design and whine that someone else wont pay for it. Not to say if there is a failure unrelated to the modification the MFG should take care of THEIR responsibility.
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02-11-2007, 09:35 AM
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#36
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by trukdoc
I agree with you Dave. And applaud the fact that you will pay the consequences, as most hotrodders and HP junkies from the begining have done. But what I am seeing here is some folks wanting warranty after they have pushed their engines beyond design and whine that someone else wont pay for it. Not to say if there is a failure unrelated to the modification the MFG should take care of THEIR responsibility.
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I haven't heard anyone complain about their modifications not being warranted by the manufacturer. What I have heard is a lot of words that are what I call "a little misleading." How can I have a complete Banks Power Pack on my rig and yet have the manufacturer not void my warranty? I even had an extended warranty that was honored after I had the Banks system installed. Am I the only one? I'm sure I'm not. On this subject, I'm kind of like Glenn, "I say it like it is."
Orv
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