Unhappy Montana owner right now!

[Golfmedik]

I've been told that the seam separation under the slide is quite common and is usually a result of the adhesive coming loose between the sidewall and the aluminum beams you see in the pic where the pink is. With my unit, you could watch the roof stop when lowering it onto the truck and the bottom of the camper come on down a bit. A frame issue was very obvious in mine. They tell me that a solution for the previously mentioned is to remove the bottom trim and filon under the nose and shoot a new marine adhesive up behind the wall, then clamp it for 48 hours to cure. Also, put screws every 5" from nose cap to the expansion joint under the slide to stop it. The equipment was sent to my dealer for them to do this when we finally got everyone on the same page and told them there was too much flex for that. IF, that new adhesive and screws had been put in mine, they would have torn the sidewall on the first trip.

[Golfmedik]

Well, I got another email from them again today with a few more pics saying they have completed the welding process on my unit and starting to put everything back together. NOW, this is really disturbing to me on a few fronts! 1. They have yet to respond to my emails and two phone calls asking where the pics of the broken frame are. 2.IF all they did was make the repairs in the pics below, what caused them in the first place. The collision center could have welded these places, but was not about to due to the root cause was not yet identified. 3 The unit is still sitting in the bay with the sides and nose off of it and say they are working hard to have it back to me by "my time frame". First off, it was an agreement that it would be back here, not a DEMAND by me! 4. They have YET to address the AC systems, much less test them before ANY attempt at repair is made. 5. AND they are telling me in another email that it will be back a week from today!! I've left three voicemails now since last Friday with no return!!

[Golfmedik]

After I left messages again today, I called the GM of my dealer. He had no answers as he had been told what I had been already, so I informed him of my pics and the email. I asked about the AC units, if anyone had mentioned them and he said they hadn't. He said he would call and see if he could get an answer. About 3 pm this afternoon, I got a call from my sales rep asking what I had been told and that he would see if he could find anything out for me. Around 4pm I got a call from the case manager wanting to know what I needed. I explained my concern and she accessed the email I was sent and said she could see my concern was valid. I explained to her and the floor manager that a steel weld was broken, but that she had only sent pics of the aluminum repairs which concerned me. She stated she understood and sent an email to the floor manager explaining the situation and that she and I both needed clarification. I then asked her about the AC units. She said that they had spoken about them yesterday and that they are scheduled to be tested as soon as the unit it closed up. I reminded her that I was told the unit would be here a week from today and the unit was still apart. She explained that my unit is in a different building on the premises where the certified techs work to trouble shoot the problems that have been sent back. She explained that she thought the unit could still be ready, but would touch base again with me in the morning along with the floor manager. She claims that she is glad that I called and staying on top of things. I told her to be glad she is a thousand miles away from me. I will update as I can.

[JABURKHOLDER]

Sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

[Carole]

I would have had a nervous breakdown dealing with all that you have. Absolutely horrifying. You have every right to be very angry.

[Golfmedik]

Sorry for the long post upfront.
Well, I'm not even sure where to start...I got a call today from the floor manager at Keystone. Remember the one that the case manager said I wouldn't be talking to anymore?
Anyway, she said that she was calling because she had heard I had some 'concerns' over what has been done so far. So I started with the aluminum plating.

I asked why she sent the ones of just the aluminum and not the steel repair to which she responded that all of the steel was intact I tried to keep my composure and asked why she and Shelley both had told, not only me, but the dealer as well, that there was actually a weld broken on the Lippert frame.

She said, no, the only broken welds were in the aluminum. She she had never said there was a break in the weld of the steel, to which I replied, then why did you tell me that you were waiting almost two weeks on a Lippert welder. She then claims that she never said that and that they were waiting on one of their welders to come and repair the aluminum.

So I stated it made no sense as they have dozens of aluminum welders all over their plant. She didn't respond except to say re-emphasize that there was not a weld broken in the steel.

I then started questioning why the aluminum was flexing so much and she said it was the missing wood in the two upper tubes of the left front. She also said that the tech had reported the relief cut under the slide was cut in the wrong position.
She said this was not the first one they have had back with the wood missing that had done the same damage. She explained that by putting the wood into the 3 tubes and then screwing long screws up through them into the top piece of wood made it much stronger. The screws that were in there were way too short because there was only the bottom piece of wood. Those subsequently pulled out.

She said by putting wood in all three and then screwing them together, it basically makes similar to a "laminated beam" in a house. It strengthens the entire area and stops the flex.

Reportedly the production manager of the assembly plant was brought over and shown what was missing and it needed to be corrected on the line. I was then told that the weight of the slide and the framing around the slide was under quite a bit of stress, which makes sense, and that the beam under it was not supposed to flex.

So, I asked the million dollar question why it did! And while I was on that topic, I asked her if all of the studs in the Montanas looked like mine did and she claimed not to have seen them and I immediately sent her the pics that you've all seen.

When she opened them she asked where those studs were and I informed her those were the ones YOUR welder just welded and plated! She said she had never seen any welded like that before and that very well may have been a contributing factor to the entire issue.
I explained that I was not a welder or an engineer, but I'd built homes and welded things myself and would be absolutely embarrassed at such *****ty work. She agreed. I asked her what the chances were that all of them in the camper looked like that and she said all of them would have been caught. REALLY NOW???????

We then started on the AC units that have not been tested or looked at yet and she once again told me the unit would be here by the 6th(Next Thursday!) I reminded her of no air flow and she said if that was the case, most likely the air ducts had come "un-taped"! She said the units will under go their electrical tests for fan speed, draw other factors now done by computer, but also the ducts would then be inspected by camera.

I asked if by chance they had come undone, would the ceiling have to come out? Only a panel or two was her reply, but can be done much quicker than you think. I asked her was the banister wall repaired to which she had no confirmation in the computer file from the techs That mind you was supposedly being done while waiting on "their welder".

She said she would check with them in the morning and call me back tomorrow with an answer. I was asked again where they would be sending the unit. I replied "Georgia!" I was then told it was a two day trip for a driver since they can only drive 11 hours a day, so I asked again if she was sure she would have it here Thursday with the nose & side wall still off of it, the AC units not checked and the banister wall unsure if it secured.

She said, "It would most likely be there". I'm not holding my breath at this point. I truly do not know what to believe. I was more confused after talking to her today than I was before she called. This is truly wearing me down even though I have tired not to let it. Sorry for the long post, but will update when I know more

[Jilly]

Wow.....just read this whole post. Golfmedik - I think I'd be taking a trip to see them in person!! Holy H$ll...that's just crazy what you've been put thru. We just got a 2017 3000RE and I think we will be looking thingver very closely. Thank you for all the updates. I hate saying people learn from other people's mistakes....PLEASE know I'm not saying its your mistake it's definitely Keystone, I'm saying to learn from other people's experiences. These forums are made for communication- good, bad or indifferent.
Wishing you all the best in this. I will definitely be following to see the outcome. You've definitely taken the high road!!

[Phil P]

Hi

Now the lies start, I have been lied to so many times by this bunch that I have stopped counting.

Phil P

[mlh]

I think I would get in my truck and ride up there to see what on earth they are doing. No way I would trust them and buy a Montana, are you out of your mind.
Lynwood

[PNW Fireguy]

This has been an utterly painful thread to read. Just a suggestion...since Keystone is covering shipping the unit back to you ask them to compensate you with those funds and drive up to Goshen to get this issue resolved. Then hook up and bring your unit back home hopefully on time.

[Golfmedik]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

This has been an utterly painful thread to read. Just a suggestion...since Keystone is covering shipping the unit back to you ask them to compensate you with those funds and drive up to Goshen to get this issue resolved. Then hook up and bring your unit back home hopefully on time.

I've asked to do that but was told that it had to be returned to the dealer to be PDId and then I could pick it up. Plus, someone else's insurance is bringing it halfway across the country. Not sure I believe that either!

[Golfmedik]

Well, well, well, another deadline missed! Surprised? Me either! Remember I was told the unit would be here tomorrow. I got in touch with the floor manager about 1pm today and she said that the unit was in the rain bay being tested for leaks. If there are no leaks, the unit will then be cleaned and shipped tomorrow afternoon or Friday morning which will put the unit at my dealer Saturday, which is what I've been trying to avoid since the ordeal started. I have to work 24 hours on Saturday and a 50 hour shift on Monday and Tuesday, leaving only Wednesday to completely reload the unit with EVERYTHING. The unit was to be at the campground before 5PM Wed. Not going to make it! She said, "I'm sorry, we missed the deadline." to which I replied, "Like everyone so far!" IF the unit is here on Saturday, it has to be PDId by the dealer again for any "shake down" problems and then washed before I can pick it up.
I then asked her was everything repaired and she said she would go get the work orders from the techs and call me back. Well, she did and then we went over the items one at a time.
First was the flex and welds. They have been repaired as shown in the pics. The stripes on the left front of the camper are new as well since the nose has been off three times now.
Second was the banister wall in the living area. The backer was never put in the wall when it was built, so the screws basically went into the wall panel only, pulling out the first few trips. The wall was taken down and the board put in and the banister re-installed.
Third was the exposed wood on the right, lower rear corner of the unit at the back wall. The trim was removed and the fiberglass pulled back exposing the back wall had never been bolted to the floor!!! The bolts were put in and the wall and trim replaced to correct the issue.
Fourth was the AC units. The vents were taken out and most of the vent opening had to be re-taped where they went into the ducts. The ducts were re-taped in the area as well. The vents were replaced with a much shorter vent to allow the airflow out of the ducts into the camper.
IF I am able to pick up the camper Saturday, I will have to take off of work to get it. That's another 24 hour shift I will have to give up to get something settled with this ordeal. I'm beyond mad at this point. They did exactly what I was afraid they would do, which they agreed NOT to do just two weeks ago. At this point, I'm not really surprised and more angry at myself for believing it would be any different.

[Golfmedik]

The unit was delivered back to my dealer today. It was raised and lowered several times on the truck and then off the truck with the forklift and no flex was reported. I will see the unit tomorrow and hopefully bring it home.

[mlh]

Yah Hoo.
Lynwood

[jameswbarton]

I am glad your is back. Keystone found a way to keep me from complaining. A manager at owner relations contacted me and offered to fix it right so it has been back at the dealers since February and it seems they will keep it until the warranty expires in June. I am sure when it does come back they will have not fixed much. I also lost 6 cabinet doors that all popped the glue seams by having no clearance between the double doors. Most of my skirting was not installed right and all pulled away from the slides leaving huge gaps. I at least got to use it three times when it was not in the shop.

[sambam]

Fingers crossed....

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by Golfmedik

The unit was delivered back to my dealer today. It was raised and lowered several times on the truck and then off the truck with the forklift and no flex was reported. I will see the unit tomorrow and hopefully bring it home.

That is a good start but don't get excited we had the same problem corrected and it did not hold for long.

[Golfmedik]

We picked up the camper yesterday after a thorough inspection of the unit except running the AC units as it was parked well away from the service bay due to lots of units being picked up yesterday. The service manager and the GM have both said there is a marked improvement in the temp and air circulation. I hopefully will see that the end of the week. All from re-taping the ducts near the vents and installing a newer lower profile vent. I am going to let the unit heat up today and crank the genny to see how well she cools down.
The left front where the flex was has no broken caulking in the area. Also, most of you know that there is a relief cut underneath most all new campers with front slides, now ours has a relief cut above the slide to match. Thus making the left front sidewall an individual piece. Well, that piece is a completely new piece of sidewall with a new set of graphics according to the dealer and factory. There are also two large bolts through the slide out trim, one at the top and one at the bottom that appear big enough to go all the way into the stud, not just the sidewall.
The right rear of the camper where the exposed wood behind the end of the skirting has been repaired..but not caulked!! Anyway, we were told that the rear wall was not fastened on the right lower corner and the bolts on the left lower were stripped so all that was holding the back wall in place was the bolts at the top. That supposedly has been corrected.
The banister wall has been repaired and is now very solid. It won't budge. The backer they've reportedly put inside the wall is holding firm. That was the piece that was missing when it was made. I'm happy about that.
When you walk near the rear of the camper, you can smell fresh paint. Really curious as to why they repainted the rear bumper and welds, but it was very obvious that one of the drivers was pretty rough on the rear end as both ends of the hitch flanges were bent. They are low to begin with, but had towed the rig around 4k miles without bending them, however both were bent on this trip.
The screw covering channel was cut on the rear wall edge and was left way to short at the top so water can get in, but that is a 5 minute fix when it goes back to the dealer.
The main part I worry about is there is a tennis ball sized area in the paint on the right upper front of the nose cap that has been damaged. It looks like when the nose was removed, they leaned it against something and tore up the paint. The dealer took note of it and said they could repair that there.
I walked the roof, but they booby trapped it for me. They left the screws on the ladder loose and like to have thrown me off right off the bat! LOL. It's just the screws that hold the ladder sides to the back of the camper. A few turns of a screw driver and it was good to go. The roof looked good and the seam at the nose has plenty of Dicor.
Spent most of the evening trying to remember where everything went and loading it piece by piece. I will update further when I can.

[jameswbarton]

Unbelievable that they had it so long and you still found issues. That even lowers my opinion of Keystone. Your patience must have disappeared months ago.

[cw3jason]

I had some cosmetic and paint issues when I got mine back too. the dealer fixed them for me on Keystones dime and I have been happy since.