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02-08-2011, 03:45 PM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Alturas
Posts: 26
M.O.C. #11090
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Theoretical Physics?????
Ok, here goes. We are picking up the new trailer on Friday. This will be our first fifth wheel and the wife and I are debating over several issues. I am of the opinion that due to the placement of the fifth wheel hitch, the entire pen weight is not carried by the rear axle. I theorize that a portion of the pen wait should be carried over to the front axle?
Does anyone have any thoughts or information on this?
Thanks;
Wayne
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02-08-2011, 04:22 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Bern
Posts: 4,294
M.O.C. #311
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The only way to get a true answer is to weight your truck and trailer hooked then truck unhooked.
I feel all the weight should be over the rear axles.
My weight numbers for the 02 Big Sky added 60 pounds to the front axle when hooked up.
My weight numbers for the 07 Montana subtracted 140 from the front axle when hooked up.
I feel the front axle should not have more than an additional 100 pounds on it. My Dodge already has 4840 pounds on it empty. I did not change the hitch but think the 02 weights was before I added tool boxes to the rear bed of the truck.
You need to check the specifications on your maximum weight for your front axles and assess from there.
Good question and welcome to the forum.
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02-08-2011, 04:25 PM
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#3
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Clair Shores
Posts: 389
M.O.C. #10151
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Welcome to the forum!
Considering that the pin is only an inch or two in front of the axle centerline, in a practical sense, all of the pin weight is being carried on the TV rear axle (IMHO). Any portion of the weight carried by the front axle would be absolutely minimal.
Good luck with your new rig.
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02-08-2011, 05:08 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Anytown
Posts: 609
M.O.C. #10966
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Good question and one I've wondered about too! I plan on getting some before and after weights on mine to see how that works out.
Seems like if the pivot point was the rear axle and the pin was centered directly over it the weight difference on the front axle would be nil. But the rear leaf springs attach to the frame both in front of, and behind the axle so the weight distribution on the frame (and therefore transferred to the front axle) could vary somewhat. Also, if the pin were even slightly in front of, or slightly behind the rear axle it could add to or subtract from the front axle load fairly quickly.
Theorizing aside, I agree with H. John that the only real way to know would be to actually get some actual weights. Kinda interesting how his weight distribution changed with the two different trailers!
__________________
2011 Montana 3580RL with a Reese 20k GooseBox w/offset B&W ball, Sailuns, RoadMaster shocks, Splendide stacked washer/dryer, some other stuff...
2015 Ram 3500 DRW Laramie Megacab, Aisin w/3.73s, 255/80 17 Toyos A/T III, rear auto level, 40 gal. fuel/tool combo box, some Banks mods...
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02-08-2011, 05:15 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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When my hitch was installed on my new truck, the center of the pin was over the center of my axel, it was mounted the same way on my prevous tow vehicle also. if you also look at the instalation instructions of your hitch (Reese is mine) it tell and shows the location of where the centerline should be. I can not say that of other hitches only the one I have.
on edit
I recovered my PDF file for Reese and there are different locations for many models as much as 3.5 inches forward of the CL of the rear axel depending on the YEAR and MODEL it looks like the older the TV the more forward the pin is in front of the rear axel, so I stand corrected the placement can vary from model to year model.
Wayne what year and model TV do you have I looked on you signature and it did not say, If you want a copy of this PDF file from Reese hitch send me your E-mail address and I get that information off to you.
Don
I found this and scaned it for the topic I dont know your year or model so here is mine,
http://www.montanaowners.com/attachm...3388b368ff.jpg
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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02-08-2011, 05:40 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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Find out from the manufacturer what the ideal weight distribution is for your truck when it's loaded. As John said, weigh the truck unloaded and loaded, and then decide where you want to finally put the pin.
Don't forget that when you stop, the load will shift to the front axle. If you start out with too much weight on the front (even if that doesn't overload it), you could easily overload the axle, seriously change the handling, and potentially damage the suspension.
Bob
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02-09-2011, 12:40 AM
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#7
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Goldsboro
Posts: 288
M.O.C. #9143
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I just installed a Curt 20K hitch in my new truck. The directions had me install it 1.5" in front of the axle centerline, so it seems virtually all the weight will be on the rear axle. This seems reasonable to me as the rear axle weight rating is significantly higher than the front axle rating. Hope this helps.
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02-09-2011, 02:58 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,133
M.O.C. #6433
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Basic theory of levers and fulcrums. If the pin is centered over the rear axle, then all the weight will be on the rear axle. If it is any distance in front of the rear axle, then it is a matter of weight and length in front of the axle (which equals torque) transferring some minimal weight to the front.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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02-09-2011, 04:36 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
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Crooktail,
You've gotten some really good advise and there is not much I can add. My hitch is located about an inch in front of the rear axle. Almost all the pin weight is on the rear axle. I get just a minimum addition to the front axle. From all I can gather the hitch should be located almost exactly over the rear axle. Like I said mine is within an inch or so and adds just about 80 to 100 pounds to the front axle. So far it has towed perfectly. Good luck with your installation. HamRad
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02-09-2011, 08:11 AM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 143
M.O.C. #9497
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A small amount added to the front is not a bad thing. Mine went up about 100 lbs. A lot taken off is a bad thing. This affects steering and stability. If the PIN is behind the rear axle the leverage affect will transfer weight onto the rear axle from the front. We have all seen the truck going down the road with its rear end sagging and front end stuck up like the nose on a snooty debutant.
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02-09-2011, 10:44 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Land O Lakes
Posts: 2,783
M.O.C. #10246
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by WaltandLynne
Welcome to the forum!
Considering that the pin is only an inch or two in front of the axle centerline, in a practical sense, all of the pin weight is being carried on the TV rear axle (IMHO). Any portion of the weight carried by the front axle would be absolutely minimal.
Good luck with your new rig.
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Agree....
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02-09-2011, 03:25 PM
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#12
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Macomb
Posts: 293
M.O.C. #5709
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You don't say whether you have a long bed or short bed pickup. Assuming that you have a long bed, make sure that wherever you put the hitch that you have at least four plus feet between the pin location and the back of the cab. If not you will have a collision of the front of the trailer to the cab of the pickup.
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02-09-2011, 03:43 PM
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#13
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Established Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Alturas
Posts: 26
M.O.C. #11090
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Thanks for all of the replies. My reason for the question simply to acquire real world experience. I have towed a pull trailer for the last tweleve years and we are getting a new fifth wheel so the learning curve starts all over again. Hopefully once we get all the weights as I have access to portable scales.
Don; I have a 2010 Dodge 2500 Crew Cab Long bed and elected to go with the B & W hitch so that I still have the option of towing a goose kneck if I need/want to.
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02-10-2011, 03:29 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Port Orchard
Posts: 1,153
M.O.C. #3403
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I agree with John Kohl, "The only way to get a true answer is to weight your truck and trailer hooked then truck unhooked." When we weighed our 07 3400RL I found that it added 20lbs to the front axle of the TV. Not much at all, but it did add some. On the other hand it added 3291lbs to the rear axle of the TV. So if you are going to say that the majority of the Pin weight is on the rear axle of the TV then you would be right, but technically not "All" the weight. The only way to make sure of your load is to weigh your rig.
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02-11-2011, 03:07 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Eastern
Posts: 1,155
M.O.C. #7270
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Wayne I weighed my truck in goshen last yr with the rv hooked the front tires carryed 2000-lb each. unhooked and reweighed it empty the next day and I have the paperwork 2000-lb per wheel. I watched him weight it and that was right. my truck drives great like that. JMHO
bobby
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