Frame Flex or Adjustment? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

lightningjack11 · 09-20-2006, 05:45 PM

Ok I have another Pix. I put some labels on it to identify portions of the frame. You are looking at the frame underneath the overhang. this photo shows the passenger side.

The main frame connects up to the pin box.

The wall support frame supports the Aluminum frame on what I call a small shelf for the aluminum frame to set on. The screws go through the shelf to hold the aluminum frame on the shelf.

Shown also is one of the infamous welds that holds the wall support frame (shelf) to the mainframe.

I have three of these welds on the passenger side and four on the drivers side.

If these welds fail then the shelf drops along with the aluminum frame and filon. This condition is one of frame flex problems.

I am no longer afraid of this condition. If it happens to me I will just remove the undercover and take it to the local welding shop and redo the welds. This should be done as soon as possible since you can get interior damage.

Hope I have not confused anybody. I am removing rust from the drivers side and will be painting tomorrow evening. Then I will buckle it up and finish the slide problem.

CRUZIN 2 · 09-21-2006, 04:33 AM

Tom

Good pix and explanation, I think Keystone needs to add a little more steel to the bedroom side of the frame, instead of wood, which is only 2x2, which should be steel. I agree with you Tom and take it to a local welding shop.

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2006, 05:45 AM

Thanks for your interest Larry.

I don't know about the 2x2 you are talking about. I don't thing the regular Montana has that.

I do think they should reconsider only having 3 welds. During intial construction it would be easy to double the welds and prevent a lot of future headache. Cost would be 15 minutes labor.

I hope that the last pix will clear up any confusion on the frame flex problem.
-----------------------------

Yesterday I removed the rust and applied several coats of rust converter primer over the rusted portion of the frame. Tonight I will paint it.

Just came back from Home Depot with my 3/4 oak board and Elmers glue. I will cut the board to fit and apply lots of water seal to the existing and and new board. Then I will mount and glue the surfaces that will give double the strength for the slide adjustment plate. It will be a while before I have more pixs.

CRUZIN 2 · 09-21-2006, 06:26 AM

Tom

The wooden 2x2 I was talking about, is inside of the aluminum wall frame, hope this isn't too confusing.

bsmeaton · 09-21-2006, 07:15 AM

Tom,
Great pics, thanks.

I have no experience in humidity - Never even thought about that causing the wood failure on the slide but it sounds like a reasonable cause.

Your 01 is actually a different design on the welds that my 03. Yours appears to have a channel welded to the side of the frame to saddle the aluminum structure. Mine is just a flat piece of steel welded to the bottom of the frame that creates a shelf for the aluminum structure.

Brad

bsmeaton · 09-21-2006, 08:27 AM

Larry and LaVonne,

I don't have the wood in my 2003, and probably Tom doesn't either. I was just at the Dealer yesterday, and that is supposed to be the fix. Remove the nose, slide a 2X2 wood piece into the aluminum frame and run lag bolts up through the bottom to pull everthing tight. They must have started putting the wood in a few years ago.

Brad

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2006, 09:33 AM

I see what you mean now Larry. Can't tell if I have it or not.

Brad, I looked under the slide and there is no sealant at the bottom. Without sealant my plyboard never had a chance.

I have watched water flow many time and it will at times go horizontal so some rain must have got in. The untreated plywood will just absord the water like an ink blotter. So I am revising my thinking a little. When I get done with this project I am going to go crazy with my dicor gun.

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2006, 09:42 AM

I re-read the post on the wood. Wow, I don't think that is good idea. But that is just me. What do I know.

bsmeaton · 09-21-2006, 10:12 AM

Good catch Tom. I'll bet water gets trapped along that bottom seal of the slide and works its way in. I'm following your lead and I'm going to inspect under my bed next week to see if I have the same potential.

Brad

CRUZIN 2 · 09-21-2006, 10:56 AM

Tom & Brad

I think if I were to pull the front cap off, I would put in the 2x2 and in the next opening put a 2x4 and run screws all the way up from the bottom. Just my hair-brain idea.

lightningjack11 · 09-21-2006, 11:06 AM

Whatever works Larry.

bsmeaton · 09-21-2006, 11:56 AM

Larry,

I'm still not sure what it accomplishes. As you describe, it would secure the bottom horizontal aluminimum frame to the steel plate shelf very well, but I don't have any separation there. It is secured well. My bottom aluminum frame is moving WITH the steel frame, so I assume something has separated vertically between the top and bottom structure.

The Dealer told me yesterday that I could drive myself crazy trying to fix something that may not be broke. He said almost all of the front pin boxes flex up and down on his 5th wheels (regardless of manufacturer) when he moves them with his fork truck hitch. He said he is not surprised that I do show a little movement there just from the weight transfer. He said he tore a little Keystone toy hauler apart to fix the same problem and never found anything wrong. (Just what I heard, not saying I won't check it out more)

Brad
Brad

bsmeaton · 09-21-2006, 12:08 PM

Larry,

I was just studying your picture - (cool you could get those). Was your lower steel plate (black) separating from the aluminum frame with the wood in it, causing the molding to drop indicating the lags through the steel plate that secure the wood to the plate had stripped out or pulled back out?

Brad

CRUZIN 2 · 09-21-2006, 12:40 PM

Brad

That was a very good question, on the aluminum frame separation from the steel plate, I can't give you a good answer on that because I don't know. They put more screws and longer from the bottom & side, now there is less movement.

Larry

8.1al · 09-22-2006, 12:45 AM

Larry,
The factory service center is doing just what you described, they are putting 2x4's in the upper tube and using really long screws

lightningjack11 · 09-22-2006, 03:40 AM

The only thing I can think of for why they are using the wood is so when they put in the screws in the aluminum and tighten them, the wood keeps the aluminum tube from bending. Without wood support then the screws might cause cracking of the filon. Anyone got any ideas?

CountryGuy · 09-22-2006, 03:47 AM

I believe it was described to Al like so:

without the wood, they were putting in the screws and the movement would eventually cause the screws to enlarge the screw holes in the aluminum. They felt the wood added something for the screws to grab onto.

Now, the little disclaimer: I may have understood it all wrong. Has happened a time or so before!

Cheers, Carol

CRUZIN 2 · 09-22-2006, 04:42 AM

8.1al

When did they start putting the 2x4 in at the service center? When we were their August 21, they were only using 2x2, I knew they would do more after we were there. Obviously, we missed out on a good thing.

Larry

8.1al · 09-22-2006, 01:42 PM

Larry,
They put the 2x4's in ours in mid-June. They also reinforced the pinbox area and did some welding in the propane lockers

lightningjack11 · 09-28-2006, 04:45 PM

Ok gang I wanted to finish this thread. It might benefit the owners of the older rigs.

The first pix shows the slide with the repair complete. I still lack 1/4 inch of adjustment but as I will explain it is not easy to get it. Compare this pix with the original in this thread.

Now for the problems I had. The hydraulic assembly was not welded level so the forward section is lower than the aft section. I guess the welder had a bad day and the QC guy had a day off. Look close at the right side and compare it to the left. Pix show the new board. The slide adjustment plate is yet to be installed.

I originally wanted to mount the Slide adjustment plate about 3 inches away from the previous position. Could not do it. When I adjusted the double bolts back and inch the actuator rod hit the frame at 3/4 of adjustment.

So I adjusted the end bolts on the actuator to give me another 1/2 inch.

Now I mounted the Slide plate, screwed down the new oak board and put in multiple bracing.

The pix below shows why the last 1/4 inch of adjustment will be hard. Because the hydraulic frame was assembled wrong it hyd adj plate slopes. The bolt to the right is the max adjustment I can get because it is at the bottom of the vertical elongation hole of the slide plate.

There are several solutions.
Take the Hyd assembly to a welder and have it weld it correctly...no way.

Better is to make the elongated hole 1/4 inch longer and readjust.

But for now the slide works and seals better that it ever has before. As the slide pulls in the weight of the slide shifts from the frame to the hydraulic assembly so it alleviates pressure on the frame. Just what I wanted. Someday I will go in and make the 1/4 inch adjustment. For now I am going to spend some time sealing to mitigate further water damage.

Monty is back in operation and ready to go.

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