Can a pickup go off road out west with 4x4? - Montana Owners Club

David and Jo-Anna · 08-13-2006, 09:37 AM

I am planning to get a one ton pickup to tow a Monty--I'll probably get a dually diesel, but am debating whether to get the 4x4 option. In that context, I was wondering whether getting the 4x4 option would also allow one to do any offroading out west, or is a one ton dually pickup just too big and awkward a vehicle to expect to be able to go off road at all? How about allowing one to go one some of the gravel roads in national and state parks that would be too much for a car--could a dually one ton make it with the 4x4 option?

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

Cat320 · 08-13-2006, 10:01 AM

You have opened up another can of worms. 4x4 vs 4x2. My new (to arrive this week??) dually will be my seventh truck. Never had a 4x4, never needed a 4x4, cannot imagine ever needing one...unless we move to snow/ice country, which won't happen. I do not plan to go any where off road that would warrant a 4x4. Also, keep in mind with a 4x4, you reduce cargo capacity, reduce tow capacity, reduce mpg, increase initial cost ($3000), increase weight (300), and increase maintenance. Lots have 'em, lots love 'em and would not be without them, and that's fine, just not for me.

As for your questions, a 4x4 dually would let you go any where any other 4x4 could go. in fact any truck is capable of using roads in national and state parks, I've used them for years towing a TT, boat, in a pickup camper, a Class C MH, all with 2 wd. "Been doing it for years, never had a problem"...my favorite comment fits right in here!

As the old saying goes, with a 4x4 you just get stuck farther back in the woods! But, as I have said before, it's your truck, your Montana...you decide.

Sunshine · 08-13-2006, 10:32 AM

What Cat320 said. We have a 4x4 because of where we live - snow and ice, mud after it rains, and a 4x4 gives us more clearance on some of the back country roads we travel on. Some folks think 4x4 means they are safer or can't get stuck - wrong - like Cat says, you can get stuck further out in the woods and bury it deeper if you're not using common sense in the first place.

Virgil and Karen
2000 3255RL
2006 F350 PSD 4x4

RailroadMike · 08-13-2006, 11:32 AM

It all depends on what you plan to do...I spend alot of time in the hills hunting and fishing for me FWD is a must. I have a 2004 F350 FWD with four doors and a long bed and sometimes it is just too much truck. If you do go this way becareful but enjoy. To many people will destroy the truck or the hillside just to go another fifty yards.

Bluegill · 08-13-2006, 11:50 AM

I ordered mine 4x4 because I plan on living in the Northwest for a while...snow..ice...mud...mountains and what ever happens up here.

My theory is... if ya think ya might need it.. get it.

A buddy of mine back home has some property next to a river where a lot of campers go. He sees more 4x2's stuck back there because of the extra weight of the desiel motor. The 4x4's drive on by and wave.
(well they actually stop and help)

Thats all I know.
Blue

Mac · 08-13-2006, 11:54 AM

I wouldn't own a pickup of any kind if it wasn't a 4x4, in CO you couldn't give anything else away. Besides that I've used it a number of times while positioning or pulling my Monty out of a spot. Again, everyone has their choice of truck and of this option as well, I can be persuaded on a brand of truck, NEVER if it need to be a 4x4!

mac

1999 Silverado LS Extended Cab, Prodigy Brake Controller
2006 2955RL

sreigle · 08-13-2006, 12:06 PM

David, I'd like to offer my opinion because we do what you are wanting to do. See our website (in my signature), particularly the month we were in Moab, UT, this past Spring.

In my opinion you can do most of the gravel roads in National Parks. You can do some with 4x2. Others will require 4x4. The dually will also restrict some of those you can do. But most of the real "roads" in the NP's will be doable for you.

We've been a few places where dually is prohibited, but not many. The others are common sense. If you get to a point you're not comfortable, back out and find a place to turn around. I've done that with my SRW, too.

You will not be able to do what a real off-roader can do (neither can I) but the 4x4 will get you more places than you could go with 4x2.

Vicki and I were talking about your question a bit ago. She feels you would not be able to do the Shafer Trail from Canyonlands NP (near Moab) down to below Dead Horse Point State Park. I think you could but it would be tight. Here's a picture. This is a terrific road to drive, by the way.

And this one is in Arches NP, also near Moab. I think you could do this one. It's a blast although tame for real offroaders.

Unlike others, we have had to use the 4x4 to get out of a muddy (previously grassy) site after a rain. Another time after pulling off onto a shoulder to check the map and not realizing how much rain they'd had.

I lost 200 lbs of tow capacity because of the 4x4. I still have 15,400 in my F250 so the 200 doesn't worry me. I think 4x4 vs 4x2 is mostly personal preference, not a requirement at all.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

sheiba1 · 08-13-2006, 12:17 PM

Live in Tucson AZ would not be without my 4X4, when dry camping in national forest areas there is a lot of hills loose dirt on a dirt road = spinning wheels, also a lot of sandy washes to explore and you will not get out with a 2 wheel drive. There are a lot of camp grounds off of main roads that you can stay at but to explore forest areas that are not paved is not for 2 wheel drive. I lived in NY state and never had 4 wheel drive never needed it because I didn’t leave paved roads never used snow tires either. Out west if you want to explore get the 4X4!

rickety · 08-13-2006, 12:20 PM

Steve, Have been on that very road with a 800 pound Goldwing, what a kick! We had to go slow, but it did it. I loved Dead Horse Point park. Sit under the canopy and watch the lightning, and watch the clouds develop and go away,feed the prarie dogs or whateveer they were.

The only way I would go in a truck would be 4X4. I don't anticipate doing any of that any more,
The truck is my tow vehicle and will be our primary one of these days. For now, bought a Chevy HHR for Phyllis birthday/Our Anniversay and she will use that for the next two years, and I'll go with the Dura. I might go for a dually nest, but only If we got a larger (3670) trailer, but then I would probably go with the 450.

[IMG] http://tinypic.com/j8lbg9
.jpg[/IMG]
Rick and Phyllis Trent,
2004 Chevrolet 2500HD/Duramax/Allison,exhaust brake.
2004 Monty 3280RL/slide toppers,sleep comfort bed. Full Timers since January 2006!
Gizmo the dog who thinks he's a Great Dane

richfaa · 08-13-2006, 01:04 PM

When we had our hunting camp up in the Mountains of Western Pa everyone had a 4X4 including myself(Jeep) as for a TV I have never had the need for a 4X4 and I have to say in 20 years of camping have never had the need for one. I would really like to have one just for the..it's there if you need it...factor.but I traded it off for the weight factor. Only you can determine if your mode of camping will require a 4X4..If you suspect it will..get the 4X4..you can cut weight somewhere else..

Rich& Helen N.Ridgeville,Ohio.

F-350SD, Lariat, V-10,4:30 Diff, tow command Long bed, Crew Cab Dually, 06 3400RL
Mor-Ryde Pin Box

ols1932 · 08-13-2006, 01:12 PM

I guess I don't understand why you want to go off-roading with your tow vehicle. For the times you may want to off-road, there are a lot of places where you can rent a four-wheeler.

As for 4X4 vs. 4X2, it's up to each individual. Those who say they won't ever have a 4X4 will eventually wind up in positions in RV parks where they won't be able to move due to wet grounds. The guy next door with a 4X4 will be called upon to help. Will he?

Orv

David and Jo-Anna · 08-13-2006, 01:44 PM

Steve and Vicki--Just enjoyed your travellog about your trip to Arches and Canyonland. WOW!!!!! And you are right--you were doing exactly what we want to be doing in 2008. We loved the photos (Jo-Anna is VERY into photography and wants to ask you lots about your camera equipment) and Vicki's commentary. WOW is right!!!

As for the question of 4x2 vs. 4x4, Jo-Anna and I are in agreement--no way we want to tackle those "roads" without 4x4!!!!!!

Look forward to meeting you both at the Rally next month.

David and Jo-Anna Kikel

sreigle · 08-13-2006, 01:59 PM

Thank you for the nice comments. We very much are enjoying our traveling.

Vicki does all the postcards, I just put them on the web and manipulate the pictures to make them manageable. The camera is an ordinary digital camera, although the latest one has 12x optical zoom, which is sweet when photographing wildlife. Vicki takes nearly all the pictures. All those pictures you saw have been reduced in size and to 50% quality to keep the filesize small enough for email. What you see on the web start out as email ecards Vicki sends to friends and family.

I hope you enjoy your travels as much as we are ours. See you at the rally.

Orv, there are times renting a Jeep would be appropriate and even desirable for us. But many times we take off exploring and we just run across some of these roads. It often is not premeditated. Having the 4x4 ready to go has value to us for that reason.

Rickety, this truck is our only vehicle. That's why I have a few times backed out and turned around. Last time was on the Gemini Bridges Trail off US 191 near Moab.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

Glenn and Lorraine · 08-13-2006, 02:46 PM

I have a 4X4 and I wouldn't be without it. I have also off roaded a bit with it. For the most part a 2X4 would have been sufficient but too many times I needed all 4 wheels pulling. BUT I should also point out that some of the roads were on the narrow side and a possible problem with a dually.
I have also needed 4WD getting into and out of many a camsite. Most recently this spring in a rainy Vermont.

Without the 4X4 I wouldn't have gotten the rig out of the site.

ols1932 · 08-13-2006, 03:07 PM

Glenn,
I've been in those situations and without my 4X4 I'd never have gotten out.

Orv

Fordzilla · 08-13-2006, 03:19 PM

I have a 4x4 because I live and work in Iowa. Snow one day rain and sleet the next, the 50 degrees the third day. You never know what to expect of mother nature. I have also used 4x4 when on grass areas just to prevent tearing up the campsite like some would do to get it out in 2x4. I bought it because I have to have it to get to and from work at all hours of the day and night. But I regularly use it when backing into and puling out of wet grassy areas with the trailer.
As far as using it do much off roading I think if it will fit the dually will go anywhere the SRW will go. Although I have only owned the DRW since this spring, hopefully this winter it preforms as well on the snow and ice as a SRW.

Ron & Melinda Rosewall
Marcus, Iowa
'06 F350 DRW King Ranch 4x4, diesel pulling machine.
'04 3685FL, Fireplace, Cent Vac, Fantastic Fan, Safety Glass, 2nd A/C, Slide out awnings.

http://www.picturetrail.com/fordzilla

CountryGuy · 08-13-2006, 03:25 PM

Only times I remember being stuck (other than in our own yard, geesh, thanks Good Sam for the removal services) was in a Campvention, in Guelph Canada, as I remember a bunch of us were stuck there and they had to yank us out with farm tractors, the other time was also one of those situations, a state campout, and again, bunch of us stuck, and again, the farm tractors yanked us out. Neither of these were "true" campgrounds, but rather fair grounds where we boondocked. From what I remember did not matter what your TV was, you were stuck. Time frame, over 22 years, not bad average, eh??

Cheers, Carol

sreigle · 08-13-2006, 04:40 PM

Ron, I think you're right. It's the "if it will fit" I was referring to. I'm not sure a dually longbed could make the hairpin turns (it might but it would be very tight) on Shafer Trail (in that picture I posted) and in Big Bend NP there is a sign prohibiting duallies from the road leading to the Hot Springs. It's a width thing there. Traction wise, no problem. Sorry if I made my thoughts unclear.

See another Montana or Mountaineer on the road? Flash lights twice, it might be one of us!
Steve Reigle (pronounced Regal)
Fulltiming since 3/21/03
'03 3295RK
'05 Ford F250 SD Lariat CC SB 6.0L PSD/TS FX4 4x4

Our RV Travels (now Firefox-compatible)

simonsrf · 08-13-2006, 04:57 PM

David and Jo-Anna, I live in the NorthWest and spend quite a bit of time in Utah, Colorado and California. I would not ever consider NOT having a 4X4. I haven't done any 4X4 roads yet with my new Dodge 3500, but rest assured, I'll be out there. The reason I got a 5th wheel instead of a motor drive coach was so I could unhitch and explore and still just maintain one engine. Exploring can put you just about anywhere! The SWB is real handy for parking. Not to sure why you would want the dualleys. Maybe someone could answer that for me too.

Steve, Moab and the White Rim trail, Dead Horse Point, etc. etc. are in my favorite stomping ground. I have been down the Shaefer Trail in a 4X2, but would have preferred the stability of the 4X4. I've been going to that area for 35 years, and it is still my favorite.

Once I rented a suped-up Jeep for some exploring in the back country around Moab. Camped for 4 days and could hardly wait to get it back to where I rented it.....It beat me up, and being a short guy and the floor boards were up to my waist....well, I was a tired puppy. Love the luxury of my OWN 4x4 with leather, air, and satellite radio....!

Robbie

Peace!
Robbie & Alice Simons
Seattle

2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4X4 SWB Laramie (LNRNGR)
2006 2980RL (TONTOW)
Line-X bed liner
Jacobs Exhaust Brake
Prodigy Brake Controller
Hijacker 24-UMS-21 Hitch
Start Fulltiming 10/2006

Wrenchtraveller · 08-13-2006, 06:09 PM

The majority of new trucks sold around here are 4X4 and I have owned 4X4s for the last 25 years.
I would never consider owning a truck that was not 4x4. I have been in northern Alberta toodling along in the snow while the 4x2 vehicles don't even try to move .

Also, the two speed transfer case gives you extra low gearing to hold you back or to back up a heavy trailer on soft ground. Many automatics are cooked trying to back up a trailer on soft ground.
The heat builds real fast when you're in reverse barely moving. In my contractor days I have had my overloaded pickups where they would not even move in reverse high range. Put her in low range and idle up anything. 4x4 makes your truck a true multi purpose vehicle and I guess that is why a used 4x2 is so hard to sell up here in the land of ice and igloos.

Don & Donna
Vancouver Island
2005 Ford F350 V10 Lariat CC 4x4 LB SRW 11200 GVWR
2006 Montana 2955RL

click on the little pic to see a big pic

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