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Old 06-29-2006, 07:03 AM   #1
rnjinaz
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Living in the Montana in cold weather

We will be living in our Montana during the winter. The temperatures will get as low as 10 degrees. What do we do to keep the water supply from freezing? What other problems will we face?

Solutions?
 
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:52 AM   #2
jrgwdenner
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Welcome to the forum! You have come to the right place to ask this question. Our 'cold weather experts' will be along to give you some great answers. Lots of experience represented on this forum.
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Old 06-29-2006, 08:02 AM   #3
FulltimeFollies
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Here is what we do. Home Depot sell thats foam pipe wrap. We wrap our water hose in in. On the connection at the ground, we use a can of spary foam, the type for closing holes in houses. On the trailer connection, I use any type of insulation that is on sale. If you spray the connections and faucets with a cooking spray, then use the foam in the can, it will come off all in one piece when you get ready. If you will invest in one of those covers that go around the fifth wheel part , it will cut wayyyy down on your heat losss in the bedroom/bath area. You can involke a small hole in your basement if it is not heated, and use the house ducking to keep it warm. When it gets really cold, be sure and leave the cabinet doors open a tad. Use a elec heater when possible, always make sure you have a vent close by and open for fresh air. Some buy the temp film that will go on your windows and cut down on heat loss. The biggest problem in cold weather is keeping heat loss to a minimum, thats where your propane cost goes.
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:18 AM   #4
CountryGuy
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What year unit do you have?? the more recent ones (per the brochure) state they are good to 0 Degrees. Earlier ones, you are gonna need to do some of the things that have been already suggested, maybe more, maybe less.
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Old 06-29-2006, 12:19 PM   #5
Glenn and Lorraine
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Welcome rnjinaz to the MOC family.

As full timers we have a lot of experience with winter RVing. In 3 winters we have yet to have anything freeze. My system is quite simple...
Point that sucker south and don't stop until the temps stay above freezing!!
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:10 PM   #6
richfaa
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Rich & Helen will be right behind Glenn & Lorraine.
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Old 06-29-2006, 04:46 PM   #7
ols1932
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We've had our 2000 Montana in 0 °F weather without any problem. However it wasn't sustained at that low temp. It was only one night.

Orv
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:43 AM   #8
sreigle
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Rnjinaz, please tell us the year of your Montana. As CountryGuy mentioned, there is a major difference in how the newest models handle cold weather and how the older ones, like ours, handle it.
We will try to help you.

Ours is a 2003 model and initially would freeze up the water pipes at around 22 degrees, sustained. We have made some modifications that allow us to handle that 10 degrees F without freezing. We've gone to zero without freezing but at 5 below we did freeze up. We also had some other freezing problems but those were due to my errors.

Please post back and we'll try to help you. Or email me by clicking the envelope icon above this post and I'll try to help. We'll be in this site until 7/5 and then will be on the road for awhile so email will be spotty during that time.

No matter what model year you have, one very important thing in surviving 10 degrees F without freezing is to make sure the furnace runs enough to keep heat in the belly where the water lines are. You do not have to run the furnace at a high temperature. 58 or 60 at night is plenty.

I have heat taped the low point drains. I heat tape the water hose and the park's water bib. Just foam insulation hasn't been enough at 10 degrees for us but it might work if the day's high got back above freezing. I also put the foam pipe insulation on our water lines in the belly. No need to do that on the newest rigs.

If you'll post here we'll try to help you out. You also can email me if you want.
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Old 06-30-2006, 01:48 PM   #9
Montana_1240
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Consider running a heat tape around the water line, (under the foam insulation,) as well.

Do make sure you don't leave any of the dump valves open. (Many campers do, to avoid having to pull them every few days.) That would lead to the hose building up a layer of ice until it might not flow when a tank gets full!

Even though we're from Fairbanks, Alaska, we started fulltiming before winter officially set in. We followed Glenn's advice, and have wintered in southern Alabama the past two years. We only faced cold weather for short periods, and as long as we kept the fireplace running, a spare electric heater for the bedroom, and the propane full, we were pretty comfy. But since it wasn't prolonged, who knows what misery we avoided? We did have minor early morning water problems in a couple sites. But that was before we got the foam.

Keep us filled in on your progress.

Steve
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Old 07-06-2006, 01:22 PM   #10
rnjinaz
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Thanks for the info. I purchased a 2005 Montana. From the comments I'm getting it sounds like I should have few problems.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:16 PM   #11
Garin1
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Robert, there is an active thread in the general heading under "2007 Monty 0 degree testing". On my post there you will see a photo of my 2002 Cougar (Monty's cousin) spending the winter in a Maine campground with sub zero temps.
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Old 07-09-2006, 09:33 AM   #12
sreigle
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rnjinaz, if your low point drains are inside the basement storage area then you probably won't have a problem. If yours has the low point drains hanging under the belly then yours is like mine and you may have to do some things to "winter proof" it. Let us know if this is the case and you need some suggestions.

One thing you might consider is getting the clear window film to put over the windows. If you have dual pane windows you won't need this. Otherwise, the film makes a big difference in inside comfort. It comes with doublesided tape you put on the frame around the window, then stretch the film over the tape. I try to find the "outdoor" film but sometimes have to use the indoor film outdoors anyhow. The film makes a major difference.
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Old 07-09-2006, 01:48 PM   #13
8.1al
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So Steve, will the new 3400 have the dual pane windows?
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Old 07-09-2006, 04:48 PM   #14
sreigle
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Larry, I'd really like to have reliable dual pane windows but I've read about so many problems with them losing the seal, etc., from bouncing down the road that we decided to forego them. I'll just continue to put the clear film over the windows as winter approaches and peel it off when we escape again.
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:15 PM   #15
dsprik
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Steve, you just answered my question on another topic about the dual pane windows, so you can disregard that post...
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:24 PM   #16
Chaser
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Okay, Steve - now you've raised my eyebrows - we have the dual pane windows - came as was - we probably won't be any length of time in cold weather when traveling- but if we are here at home for any length of time, we will be in very cold temperatures for long periods of time, with possible snow build up to boot -I am assuming then from your earlier posts that it would be a good idea to heat tape those lines/fittings exposed out of the unit, as well as wrap with insulation - we do keep an electric heater going all the time, propane at the ready, as well, we could turn on the fireplace low and move the heater to the bedroom, which because it is more exposed, seems would need more attention. Your response is appreciated. And would that not be the case no matter what model anyone has ???
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:26 PM   #17
Chaser
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Sorry, I meant to say - you can reply either direct to our email address (you have) or in this topic or both...just don't want to miss your answer....as we will be on the road as well for a week...

Thanks Much
Chaser
Mike & Evy
3400/Dodge Ram
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:48 PM   #18
sreigle
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Chaser, on your 2007 you shouldn't need to do anything at all, except to the water hose, if you leave it connected. That you'd want to heat tape/insulate. Also the park's water spigot (every inch of it) and pipe if they don't already have it insulated. I also carry a 5 gallon bucket full of roll insulation that I put over the spigot. But your Montana is tested to not freeze down to zero F so long as the furnace runs occasionally. I don't plan to do anything but the above to ours, except I will have to film the windows for comfort since we won't have the dual panes.

Tell me something... do the dual panes have opening windows? I had heard they do not. Is that correct? Thanks.
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Old 07-14-2006, 04:07 AM   #19
tmarshall
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I'm not sure if this post is still going, but I will ask anyways. I own a 2004 Montana 3670RL. The low point drains are hanging below the underbelly and I can see the internal water lines in the belly through seems in the underbelly by the entry steps. I plan on insulating the underbelly more and insulating the water lines. I am also going to do some basic plumbing and temporarily remove the lowpoint drains and cap them off in the underbelly. My main question is when your lines freeze up, do they break the lines or do they just not flow because of ice? I have nightmares about my lines breaking and water gushing everywhere. Things wouldn't be as bad if the pipes just stop flowing and do not break. I am also planning on skirting my trailer for winter living in Denver. Thanks
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:34 AM   #20
sreigle
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Tmarshall, the lines are pretty elastic. We've frozen ours several times (hard freeze) and have not had problems with them.

If I may offer some tips, having been where you are trying to go...

Insulating the low point drain lines will only get you down to maybe 17 degrees before they freeze anyhow. Just freezing those is not a problem until they freeze back up into the belly where the lines tee. Then it shuts off water flow. I had to put heat tape on mine, then cover that with insulation, and wrap the whole thing with duct tape. Mine's been that way for 2 years and is still hanging in there. I don't undo the heat tape, I just leave it there. Your solution of capping off those lines in the belly should work also.

I also insulated the water lines in the belly with the foam tube insulation from Walmart, Home Depot, etc. That helped a bunch. I'm talking the belly area under the downstairs floor. Keep the furnace running occasionally to pump heat into the belly and you'll get down to single digits, maybe less. We've got down to zero once I had it all set up right, without freezing.

In the basement storage area I also insulated water lines with the foam tubes. If the furnace runs they won't freeze in the basement storage area anyhow but the insulation cuts way down on heat loss of the hot water.

If you will keep your water hose connected to the city water all winter, be sure to heat tape and insulate your water hose. Also the park's water bib and pipe if the park hasn't already done so. Otherwise, just drag out the hose to fill your fresh water tank and use the water pump.

Keep your tank dump valves closed until ready to dump. Otherwise the water flow into the dump pipe and sewer hose will slowly freeze and build up until it shuts off flow. Then you have a real mess. Been there, too.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.
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