We Have a Black Tank!!

[Exnavydiver]

CW called at 0900 this morning and said the stuff is here come on in. We dropped the rig off at 11:00 am and went shopping and to a physical rehab place for Betsy's shoulder. She has a torn rotator cuff so we will have to deal with that after several weeks of PT to get the inflammation down. Anyway thats another story. We finished up around 4:30 and went back to CW, not quite done yet. They ended up needing a flex coupling because when they build in the tanks and plumbing they do it with no floor in it. Also the hole in the new tank was 1/8 inch off from where the old one was and schedule 40 pipe don't bend. After much swearing and smashed hands and fingers they finally got it done about 7:45 and CW closes at 6 on Fridays. So far so good we are using the FLUSH pedal again, too cool. There is no longer any gak leaking from the belly. The guys did say that even after a three hour flush I did last night and again this morning there was still a thick layer of Gak on the bottom of the tank and it was fairly fresh. That tells me that the power flush isn't all it is crack up to be. So a half tank and another 20 lbs of ice will be used on the next trip. I don't want the build up again either but we also have a tank that ain't leaking from the bottom now and can be filled for a good monster flush. I am rambling again I guess. Ok, I am glad we have a black tank again now we are back where we were 4 weeks ago. I guess it is time to head for Key West.

[Waynem]

Congratulations Dave and Betsy.
May all the remainder of your trip be uneventful except for pleasure.

[RC and Samantha]

First of all happy to read you finally have a workable black tank again. We've been watching your threads with great interest.

I have a thought as to why you'd have the "Gak" at the bottom of your tank. With your tank cracked the way it was the water would leak out and the solids would just stay. You may find with a properly sealed tank that may not be the case, as you mentioned you'll be able to dump the tanks once they fill which should aid in much of it going out where it's supposed to.

We've used the ice trick a few times. We do it a bit differently than you do. We dump and then use the black tank power flush for quite a long time. After that we added just a small amount of water, salt and then the 20 or 30 pounds of ice. If I have liquid Calgon on hand at the time I would also add some of that.

It seems to me and I could be wrong here, (I am often wrong, but please don't tell Dick I admitted that! ) but half a tank full of water is around 19 gallons and the the ice would melt before it had much impact on the contents of the tank. You're probably wondering what the salt does? I'm not sure but being an old waitress, I have had to deal with my fair share of glass coffee pots with burnt coffee on the bottom. The way we'd clean them is to add ice to the pot and quite a bit, a very small amount of water and lemon. Swish around vigorously until all the burnt gunk came off. It worked every time. Hence I added salt to our tank thinking in my mind it would help as it does with the coffee pots.

There is also something called Liquid Bacteria or this One I have read about that naturally breaks up and eats up the solids, that's something you may want to try. We have not used it yet, but I would like to try it. Also there have been some posts in the past where many MOC members have describe a treatment they use quite successfully that uses no RV type chemicals at all.

We've always used Thetford brand tank stuff in the black tanks. Last camping season I got to reading the bottle of the last stuff we bought and was surprised to read that it was not a product that claimed to break down the waste but rather keep it deodorized. Now I will be more careful to make sure I am picking up the right product if we can't find the liquid bacteria stuff.

Sorry this was so long, hyper typer.

Again Dave and Betsy, so pleased to know you're on your way to normal RV-ing with a non leaking black tank. Have a great time in Key West, you two deserve it!

Patty

[Exnavydiver]

Dick and Patty, We tried to get around the pyramid of death in the tank by waiting till the bowl was fairly full, then we turned on the power flush, filled the bowl to just short of overflow and then let her rip, then quickly filled the bowl twice more and gave it a full flush twice more. I used a clear elbow so I could see what was coming down the pipe and was sure I saw everything come past the elbow but maybe not. We have been using a product called Eco Save for the last two years and love it. Once we get on the road we used 2 ounces per tank for the first 4 tanks then only every 4 tanks. It has a slight pleasant smell and works very well as a bowl cleaner in very diluted form in a sprayer. We also started using Calgon powder in the two gray tanks. We just finished the last of the Calgon this week and are having the damnedest time finding it around Statesboro, Ga. We did find it in Savannah last time but,(senior moment) I can't remember where. We are also using Cascade dish washer liquid in the two gray tanks too to get the grease and other glop off the sensors. It has taken about five dumps to get most of the sensors in the galley tank clean but I think it will take another few treatments to finish the job. Eventually however I will replace these sensors with the SeeLevel brand sensors and control panel, like after the sticks and bricks gets sold. Yes we are still trying to sell. All the venting this last few weeks was just that. We are still going to give fulltiming a try but I did pickup those three 24 inch vinyl lemon stickers. Just in case... Dave and Betsy

[stiles watson]

Glad you are back to normal. Trying to give Monty and enema has to be the pits.

[sreigle]

I hate to tell you, but cleaning black tank sensors is a maintenance item, not a warranty item. That's totally your responsibility as it is mine and everyone else here.

Good luck. I don't bother trying to clean those sensors. They will just get dirty again. Plus, with a little experience you'll learn how to tell when the tanks are full.

As for the black tank flush, it's purpose is to help you avoid a buildup of solids on the bottomof the tank. It actually works quite well. But it doesn't seem to help the sensors much.

The only solution I know for the sensor "problem" is to replace them with the kind that have the sensors on the outside of the tank where they cannot be fouled by tank contents.

[fulltimedreamer]

Dave and Betsy,

Glad to hear they finally got your ... ah ... problem, yeah that's it... taken care of. Hope things start ... ah... moving along a little better for you now. Sorry couldn't resist. Enjoy your travels!!

[snfexpress]

A couple of thoughts.

Patty, the salt in the water with the ice, in sufficient concentration will actually lower the freezing point of the mixture resulting in colder water. To try this out for yourself, take a cooler and put ice, water and salt (1/2, 1/4, 1/8) and your favorite beverage straight from the pantry shelf (not cold). In about 5 minutes, your beverage will be ice cold.

Dave, I agree with Patty about the water diluting the work of the ice. The factory acutally suggested using some ice in the black tank, but without water. After we have been sitting for a couple of months, and so the "gak" doesn't get agitated, I will dump a 7 pound bag down the toilet just as we are leaving the CG. Then, in about 75 miles, I will dump one more 7 pound bag down the toilet. Then, in another 75 miles (it's usually time for a potty break, anyway), I flush about 5 gallons of water down the toilet (from the fresh water holding tank). Once at our destination I then dump and flush using the outside flusher. Voila! Seems to work everytime.

What Steve says about the sensors is so true! The cost of the current set up to Keystone is about $20 to $30, including the "panel". Double the cost and we could have sensors that work, but that's the cost of staying competitively priced. Our Monty "burps" when she needs to be dumped. In two years, I have only been abe to rely on the sensors 3 times: once when it was new, once when the gray tank was replaced with new sensors, and once when we did the last ice cube trick and then spent about an hour and a half dumping and flushing, although the effort was to get all the "gak" out, not to get the sensors clean.

[sreigle]

When we had the pyramid I tried all the standard "tricks." Ice. We drove 167 miles on state and county highways to rock the heck out of the rig and it still didn't faze the pyramid. Tissue digester did help some but we didn't use it until later.

What worked was a neighbor's suggestion. We used a high pressure nozzle on a water hose. The nozzle I used is actually a root feeder I bought at Ace Hardware. Connects to the water hose, has an on/off switch, and has a small hole from which water under pressure shoots out under very high pressure. I just stuck that puppy down the toilet, filled the bowl with rags to prevent backsplash (turned out not to be a problem), then turned on the water valve on the feeder and blasted that pyramid to smithereens. I then filled the tank with water using the black tank flush, then washed the remains of the pyramid out the sewer hose. I then used some tissue digester to take care of any remaining solids on the floor of the tank. The root feeder looks a lot like this one -


By the way, a couple of years ago the Keystone Service Center folks suggested I pour a couple of ounces of Pine-Sol down the toilet after dumping. We buy the Walmart equivalent of pine-sol for 97 cents for 40 ounces. I put 2 or 3 ounces in after each dump. They said this would help solids to evacuate the tank more easily. Slide right on out, in other words. Kinda like ex-lax for your black tank.

Tissue digester helps when there's a clog but it takes several days. And it needs heat to work. Our problem was in the winter in subfreezing weather. Our dealer, where I bought the tissue digester, told me to mix it in a bucket of hot water, then pour it down the toilet. Then add at least five more gallons of hot water.

I don't know if this will help you but maybe it will be of value to someone. That root feeder will be kept aboard this Montana at all times.

[HamRad]

Steve,

What a great idea. I don't think I've heard that one before. Hopefully we'll never need to avail ourselves of the "root feeder" but one never knows.

Dennis

[Icehouse]

Congratulations! I truly know the joy of having the black tank working again! What a wonderful feeling - in many ways! Can't get Calgon in AK, so I use Cascade; have a clear joint; flush like a feen; use more water than any environmentalist would ever want to know; and pray that we don't have to deal with that mess ever again!
Have a great trip to Key West!
Tammy

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Congrats,

All is well, that comes out that way in the end.

or, something like that!

[Exnavydiver]

We will see if everything is leak proof in about another 6 or 7 days when it fills up for the first time. The pipe from the tank dump to the valve was 1/8 inch lower than the old one so the tech had to use a flex coupling. Not pleased but at least we have a black tank.. Dave and Betsy