gel batteries

[Garin1]

I'd like to get some input on using gel batteries in the 5vr. When I am away for extended periods of time the inverter cooks the water out and the battery has to be replaced.

[BillyRay]

never used them. actually don't think I've even heard of them.

[padredw]

This is one answer to a question asked in a recent post: "why have a battery cut-off switch?"

With a battery cut-of switch, once the battery is in full charge the 30 or 50 amp can be disconnected and the battery switched off, thereby preventing any current drain. Our Montana rarely 'sits still' long enough to require recharge between uses, but I do keep a check on the water level occasionally. This does require "manual" monitoring, but it has soved the problem you raise for me.

I also replaced my one 12 volt battery with 2 6 volt "golf cart" batteries wired in series to produce 12 volts. I follow the above practice when the RV is not in use.

This seems to be to be a more reasonable solution than the gel batteries, but I have no experience with them except what I have read on the internet.

[OntMont]

Gel batteries are not the best idea for a 5er. They require special charging that your converter won't be able to supply. AGM is a better choice, but they also require special care.

The real answer is to go to the real culprit, your converter, and either replace it with a good multi stage charger, or if you have the Iota converter in your unit, you can buy a smart charge adapter for it from Iota, or other sources on the internet.

I did like PadreD, put in two 6 volt golf cart Trojan T105 batteries, and a cut off switch as well as the smart charger.

If you research RV converters on the internet, you will find that they are not the best way to maintain a battery.

[Trailer Trash 2]

I have them in my Montane and love them so far I have had them for 1.5 yrs. no water to look at no fumes to smell no problems, If you are interested I'll get the type I have and its specks when I get home.

TT2

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by Trailer Trash 2

I have them in my Montane and love them so far I have had them for 1.5 yrs. no water to look at no fumes to smell no problems, If you are interested I'll get the type I have and its specks when I get home.

TT2

TT2, I would definitely like additional info on the gel cells.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

TT2, I would definitely like additional info on the gel cells.

I run 2 of the D31M blue top which are the same as the yellow top except they have the threded post along with the cable post.

Here is there web site all prices are list so a discount is possable, Like if in TJ I guess.
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/

I hope this was help to you.

TT2



What kind of charger do I need for an Optima?

Can OPTIMA batteries be charged with a solar charger or trickle charger?



"Optima batteries do not require any special type of charger.

If your Optima battery will sit unused for extended periods of time, a maintenance charger can be used to keep it fully charged. (Sitting for extended periods in a discharged state will degrade the performance and shorten the life of any battery.)

You can monitor the voltage state of your batteries during or after use by installing a volt meter available at any auto or marine parts supply house."

[Broome101]

OK the skinny on Gel and AGM batteries both are sealed maintenance free batteries. One uses a gel electrolyte the other is regular acid absorbed in Glass Matting then fluid is pumped back out of them after they are formed. Both will require special charger that does not let them gas as much thus calling them MF batteries. The charger on these types of batteries require no more than a 2% finish rate in order not to burn them up where a normal deep cycle battery charger uses a 4% finish rate of the rated capacity of the battery. If you boondock much or use the battery as a power source for a lot of lighting etc than gel or AGM will not give you the life that a normal flooded battery will do. the best bet is to do what padrew does and go with two either Trojan T105 or T110 or any type of golf art battery in series to produce 12 V or if you do a lot of boondocking use 4 of them in parrell to produce 12 volt. I think this has been posted before you may want to do a search I think a diagram is posted in one of the threads. Some may say the gels work fine if they stay plugged up to shore power most of the time than they should do OK, but facts are all batteries will gas and produce hydrogen gases even sealed batteries. It's all in the charging of them.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

OK the skinny on Gel and AGM batteries both are sealed maintenance free batteries. One uses a gel electrolyte the other is regular acid absorbed in Glass Matting then fluid is pumped back out of them after they are formed. Both will require special charger that does not let them gas as much thus calling them MF batteries. The charger on these types of batteries require no more than a 2% finish rate in order not to burn them up where a normal deep cycle battery charger uses a 4% finish rate of the rated capacity of the battery. If you boondock much or use the battery as a power source for a lot of lighting etc than gel or AGM will not give you the life that a normal flooded battery will do. the best bet is to do what padrew does and go with two either Trojan T105 or T110 or any type of golf art battery in series to produce 12 V or if you do a lot of boondocking use 4 of them in parrell to produce 12 volt. I think this has been posted before you may want to do a search I think a diagram is posted in one of the threads. Some may say the gels work fine if they stay plugged up to shore power most of the time than they should do OK, but facts are all batteries will gas and produce hydrogen gases even sealed batteries. It's all in the charging of them.

Broome101 , I do not agree on your statement that a special chargeris needed to charge these batteries. if you go to my last post on this topic there is a Quote from Optima stating that no special chargers are needed to charge or to keep them charged even a solar charger will do the trick.

TT2

[OntMont]

Optima batteries are AGM not Gel.

Like many things, the more you delve into a subject the more complicated it gets. All three types, Gel, AGM, and flooded can be used succssfully, but there are some significant differences that need to be taken into consideration. There are several good resources on the internet, one is http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html. The key to sucessful use of any of these batteries seems to be proper voltage contol during charging, and that is where RV converters fall down.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by OntMont

Optima batteries are AGM not Gel.

Like many things, the more you delve into a subject the more complicated it gets. All three types, Gel, AGM, and flooded can be used succssfully, but there are some significant differences that need to be taken into consideration. There are several good resources on the internet, one is http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html. The key to sucessful use of any of these batteries seems to be proper voltage contol during charging, and that is where RV converters fall down.

What is this specal voltage that you are talking about. If a manufacture state that a solar battery charger or trickle charger can charge the battery, which are the bottom of the food chain in chargers, what seems to be the problem with the charger in the Montie, I would think it would have better than trickle charger capabilities. As with any charger in most RV's they have the minium, but better than a trickle or solar charger power out, I would think.
I will go as the manufacture states on charging, I have not ran out of charge yet with the Optima batteries, even when at Q-site for 5 days. that does not mean I will run the heating system in the RV either that moter will drain anything regardless what type battery you have, and drain it quickly to.
Well I like mine and would get another pair if needed in the future.

P.S. your link did not load I would like to read if possable it might be interesting for all here

[rickfox]

Good Evening Folks,

The April issue of Trailer Life magazine has a nice article on battery types. According to them, gel batteries should by avoided for RV useage. According to the article, generally industrial 6 volt batteries in series provide the best overall performance (although they are often quite heavy - T105 is a flooded acid type).

But, per the article, if you are going with a 12 battery, the AGM provides the best performance, the flooded acid is the best bang for the buck, and stay away from gel.

[Carl n Susan]

Trailer Trash 2 wrote:

quote:P.S. your link did not load I would like to read if possable it might be interesting for all here

There is an extraneous period at the end of the URL. Try http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html to access this interesting article.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan

Trailer Trash 2 wrote:

There is an extraneous period at the end of the URL. Try http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html to access this interesting article.

Got it thanks. there is enugh there to read for a long time on all types of batteries.

TT2

[Garin1]

Great response people. Excellent link in the post, good information all.

Thanks

[Broome101]

What I am referring to is % of charger based on State of Charge (SOC) of the battery. MF batteries can not handle more than 2% of rated battery capacity. Just so you know that I am not blowing smoke I run an Industrial Battery & Charger co that is throughout the southeast and been doing it for over 11 years and deal with this everyday of the week. The charger in the Monty cannot control % of capacity nor can it drop off and given rate when needs to, that's why I say it's not good for MF batteries, not that it cannot be done, it can with proper charger.

[VanMan]

I received my latest Trailer Life in the mail yesterday - there's an article on batteries !! On page 59 it states that the gel electrolyte battery is NOT recommended for RV use. It sounds like they are pretty particular on charging rates and times.

[Trailer Trash 2]

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

What I am referring to is % of charger based on State of Charge (SOC) of the battery. MF batteries can not handle more than 2% of rated battery capacity. Just so you know that I am not blowing smoke I run an Industrial Battery & Charger co that is throughout the southeast and been doing it for over 11 years and deal with this everyday of the week. The charger in the Monty cannot control % of capacity nor can it drop off and given rate when needs to, that's why I say it's not good for MF batteries, not that it cannot be done, it can with proper charger.

Well my batteries are charged to the max while I drive to my destination, and when I get there the on board charger seems to do it's job running all the 12 VDC lights and keeping the batteries working. which is all I care about. as for all the numbers being put out about chargers and there capicity's I guess that a person could go out and buy an aditional battery charger and hook it up and charge the batteries that way if they wanted to I guess.

[drhowell]

I tried Gel batteries in my airplane. They were twice as expensive as wet cell batteries. But I liked the idea of not having to add water since the battery is located in a hard to access area. Only FAA approved batteries can be installed on any aircraft and the aircraft model must be on the approved list for the specific battery. The gel battery I used was FAA approved. It lasted less than one year. When I contacted the manufacturer about the warranty, they explained the very fine print. (which I overlooked) Gel type batteries are not recommended for occasional use installations. They must be recharged almost weekly with at least a low amp trickle charger. Regular use is required to maintain the battery. YOU SHOULD NEVER USE A HIGH AMP CHARGER. If you use jumper cables to boost a Gel type you can also damage it. Gel batteries are not deep cycle. I would not use them in my RV simply because it is not used regularly.

By the way, I did receive a small pro rated warranty from the Company. Which I thought was very generous since I was at fault for the battery's failure.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by OntMont

Gel batteries are not the best idea for a 5er. They require special charging that your converter won't be able to supply. AGM is a better choice, but they also require special care.

If you research RV converters on the internet, you will find that they are not the best way to maintain a battery.

I'm curious as to what care is needed for the AGM batteries. I find nothing about them that requires special care.

One of the reasons I went to this style battery was because I didn't want any gases in the same are as my inverter. When you use an inverter and place it in the same area as the batteries, escaping gas is a no-no. As such, wet cells of any kind should not be used in this type of environment.

Orv