Doesn't Keystone Know?

[mamestra]

We are just back from a 10,000-mile journey and decided to play it safe and have the EZ lube bearings repacked at Camping World in Burlington. Dropped the trailer off and returned home to Vancouver Island, BC, our trailer is a 2012 3750FL and the one-year warrantee expired in early April. When Camping World went to repack the bearing they found that the seals had failed and grease had leaked into the brakes making them useless. They told me the bill would be close to $1000.00. I asked them to contact Keystone as I said I doubt that the seals just failed in the last 3 weeks. I too contacted Keystone explaining what happened the end result was Keystone denied the claim. I didn’t have accesses to my warrantee documents as we keep those in the 5th wheel, but I seemed to remember that Dexter’s warrantee was greater than 1 year. I phoned Dexter and yes it is a two-year warrantee so hopefully it will be covered. I was some what taken back that Keystone didn’t suggest that I check with Dexter, I realize that it is not their responsibility but just as a matter of PR I thought that they might mention it.

[Clemson1881]

Did the seals fail during the repack? Was breaking diminished before you dropped it off at Camping World? Was this a case of a grease gun gone wild through the EZ Lube fitting? Seems unlikely all four seals would fail. Please provide some additional details.

[mamestra]

Seals were gone, long before the wheel repack, they started and found grease on the brakes, not sure if it is all four seals. Braking did seem a little less than I remembered, but I had been sitting in one location for 3 weeks and hadn't really had to apply the brakes hard.

[snfexpress]

Self adjusting brakes, new ones, are less than about $75 a piece and anyone can replace them. Take the 5 bolts out of the old ones, cut the electric brake wires and remove and discard. Put the new ones on, just 5 bolts, and reconnect the wires. You're done! At the rally, Dexter was offering them for about $48 a piece.

The hardest part of the job is jacking up the trailer wheels! If you have Level Up, then even jacking up the wheels isn't a problem! And you don't have to worry about which brake wire goes where. They are a closed loop - just connect to the new magnets on your new self adjusting brakes.

Let us know what you decide to do.

[richfaa]

That happened on our 06 3400.We had almost no brakes. Dexter covered it.3 of the seals were blown and it had to have happened at the factory.

[slfaircloth]

I talked to Jim Fischer today and he told me the only stupid question is one you don't ask, so here goes. What/who is Dexter?

[kab449]

quote:Originally posted by slfaircloth

I talked to Jim Fischer today and he told me the only stupid question is one you don't ask, so here goes. What/who is Dexter?

The manufacturer of the axles.

[DQDick]

That's the problem at Keystone customer service. Some of the folks working there in the past have recommended talking to the OEM manufacturer and even given out the contact numbers. Turnover seems to be significant there and so now I guess it's up to you to ask.

[mamestra]

That was my point, I think that Dexter will cover the problem with the seals, but if I hadn't remembered I would be paying the bill. Camping World which is a Montana dealer didn't know, but I though that Keystone should. We had a similar problem with our slide pump, called Lippert and they sent the replacement and paid for the mobile tech while Montana wanted it pulled to the nearest dealer (over 100 miles away) but in their defence they did end up covering the service call

[bncinwv]

My only question is whether Camping World is where you originally bought the rig? I would be pretty upset with a service writer who does not know the warranty terms on a rig they sell, regardless of which company the warranty is from. I would really be upset if they tried to charge me for repairs that they should have known were warranted by anyone!
Bingo

[mamestra]

Hi Bingo
No we purchased our trailer in Phoenix, dealers in Canada wouldn't even do warrantee work unless we paid up front, so I don't really have a problem with Camping World, but you should think that if you sell something you should know what is covered and for how long. They are fixing a major issue, flex frame so I'm hoping that all will be well.
Michael

[dieselguy]

Since the timeline of discussion here is in less than a day, I don't think Dexter has had a chance to respond. If they do decline responsibility, I'm with Michael ... you can install the entire brake assembly backing plate and all yourself for WAAYYYYY less than $1000.00. And like Michael eluded to ... it's pretty easy. You will have to do a bearing repack as well, but the seals do not have to come from Dexter and can be had for @$5 a pair. A couple of tubes of grease will be just another $6 - $8. If you have the capability, save yourself about $600.00.

[jlb27537]

The Ez-Lube axles are probably a great idea on a boat trailer, but on a 5th wheel, just a sales gimmick.

On a boat trailer with the hub filled with grease, when you back it into the water, the water cools the hub and creates a possibility for the water to be sucked into the hub area. With it full of grease this possibility is diminished. Why they make bearing buddies.

The down side of a hub full of grease, it does not run as cool as a hub with just the bearings packed like we did when we had rear wheel drive cars 70's and back Those of us that are old enough remember you pack the front wheel bearings when you did a front brake job and that was about every 30K miles.

You really need to pull the hubs and inspect the brakes every 10K miles or so anyway and just pumping them full of grease is not proper maintenance. But it sells trailers if the salesman tells you how easy it is to pack your wheel bearings before every trip....

Also, on hub seals, there are single lip and double lip seals. Quite a price difference but a single lip is just fine if you hand pack. The previous poster hit it on the head, a complete brake assy backing plate is just a few bolts to replace. Clean the drum, replace the brakes, pack the bearings, replace the seals and enjoy.

$1000 is just a huge rip off.

Jim
Jim

[CORattler]

I had this same thing happen to my rig when it was new. Dexter stepped up to the plate and reimbursed CW to replace all 4 brake units. No problems since and the brakes work great. Evidently Dexter has a QC issue in the lube process at the factory and it hasn't been fixed yet. Likely bearings are something that isn't checked by the selling dealer on their "PDI" (if they do one at all). Perhaps we should add this to OUR PDI???

[Irlpguy]

Our 3402RL Montana is just over a year old, we have put about 7000 miles on it and estimate it has another 2000 added when it was delivered to the dealer here on the West Coast.

I started to perform a bearing repack and brake check 2 days ago, I started with the Left rear wheel and found the spindle damaged where the outer bearing race sits. The bearing was in good condition so this damage had to have been done previously, the bearing must have seized, been replaced but nothing done about the spindle. This is where I stopped and will not continue until the dealer has seen this damage and dealt with it.

The rear seal had allowed some grease to get past it but it had not affected the brake pads, this is a double lip seal and may have also been damaged when the spindle was damaged.

I will be taking pictures to the dealer to find out what they are prepared to do regarding this issue, if they do not handle it themselves via Keystone or Dexter then I will contact Dexter myself as this condition certainly existed when I purchased the "NEW" unit.

Here is what else I found. Two of the grease nipples were missing on the wet bolts, ALL nipples could be removed with my fingers and neither of the wet bolts at the spring fixed hanger location would accept grease. After replacing all grease nipples I had to beat out the two wet bolts to get grease in them, they were seized so tight I could not even turn them with a long pipe extension on my 1/2" drive socket.

I have never seen such a huge amount of problems on any RV I have ever owned. Although Keystone have fixed some of the problems on warranty, there are others that they will not fix since the warranty is now over.

My expectation of a Keystone dealer is such that if I have a problem with any part of the unit, it is up to them to be aware of the warranty periods on the components of the unit and to determine if my issue is covered under that warranty. I should not have to deal with Dexter or Lippert or anyone other than the dealer. I do not accept either the fact that when the Keystone 1 year warranty is over they are no longer obliged to deal with a problem, nor is the dealer.

Here is a picture of the spindle as I found it.

[jlb27537]

Ed, did you put a mic on it, can you emery cloth it out? Just another reason to not use the zerk on the end of the spindle.

[Irlpguy]

quote:
Ed, did you put a mic on it, can you emery cloth it out? Just another reason to not use the zerk on the end of the spindle.

Jim there was no need to mic the spindle, I would guess the wear was in the neighborhood of 6 thou or perhaps a bit more. I really don't have a problem with the Easy lube spindles, I have them on my large Quad trailer and have had no problems. There was plenty of grease in the hub when I took it apart. There is no doubt that this damage happened before I got the unit and my guess would be the bearing was replaced at the dealer after delivery or somewhere along the way to the dealer.

This did not come from the Dexter factory with this type of wear, it may have left there with little or no grease in the hub, as this can only happen when a bearing seizes up and spins on the spindle. QC at Dexter and Keystone is seriously lacking as these bearings should last for years when properly lubricated.

I spent 30 years in the equipment rental business and I know a little about preventative maintenance and what can happen when that is not performed. Someone should have their butt kicked and sent packing down the road, take your pick at Keystone and Dexter.

[sreigle]

quote:Originally posted by jlb27537

The Ez-Lube axles are probably a great idea on a boat trailer, but on a 5th wheel, just a sales gimmick.

On a boat trailer with the hub filled with grease, when you back it into the water, the water cools the hub and creates a possibility for the water to be sucked into the hub area. With it full of grease this possibility is diminished. Why they make bearing buddies.

The down side of a hub full of grease, it does not run as cool as a hub with just the bearings packed like we did when we had rear wheel drive cars 70's and back Those of us that are old enough remember you pack the front wheel bearings when you did a front brake job and that was about every 30K miles.

You really need to pull the hubs and inspect the brakes every 10K miles or so anyway and just pumping them full of grease is not proper maintenance. But it sells trailers if the salesman tells you how easy it is to pack your wheel bearings before every trip....

Also, on hub seals, there are single lip and double lip seals. Quite a price difference but a single lip is just fine if you hand pack. The previous poster hit it on the head, a complete brake assy backing plate is just a few bolts to replace. Clean the drum, replace the brakes, pack the bearings, replace the seals and enjoy.

$1000 is just a huge rip off.

Jim
Jim

The EZ Lube hubs are not the same as boat trailer bearing buddies. I used to use the bearing buddies on a boat trailer. As you said, grease is packed into that bearing buddy hub to keep water out of the bearings.

But the EZ Lube is just a way to get additional grease to the bearings. The grease entering the zerk follows a path that goes through the bearings (see animated gif below).

The problem with the EZ Lube is that it is far too easy to put in too much grease, which then pops the seal and lets grease get to the brake linings. Several of our members have had this problem. This may or may not be what happened to the original poster.

A couple of years into our fulltiming our dealer told us we had some grease seeping past the seal and that we should put no more than TWO small squirts of grease into those zerks and no more than ONCE per year. I told him we fulltime and put on more miles than vacationers. He restated the 2 squirts once per year and said that's even when we're fulltiming. We've done that in the ten years of fulltiming and had zero wheel bearing problems. I do have the dealer repack the bearings every other year when I have him check the brakes.

Here's how the ez lube works...


I saved that picture of the Dexter EZ Lube from the Dexter site a few years ago when we had a similar discussion here.

[jlb27537]

My Newmar had 7K Dexter axles. After a year of traveling I had the wheels pulled and brakes inspected.

The oem amount of grease was damn near none. I just bought a new axle to put on my utility trailer, pulled a hub to see what type of grease was in it. Again, almost no grease in the bearings.

Probably need to put packing the bearing's on the list of need to do on a new trailer.

Jim

[mamestra]

I haven't touched the bearings, since we had put on 10,000 miles I thought that I would be proactive and have the bearings repacked while our trailer was in getting serviced.