How Our Montana Spoiled Our Trip to Newfoundland

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Rich,

Yep, the horse was dead a long time ago. I'm not sure the horse was ever alive to begin with. But maybe some potential new Montana owner will read some of these posts and then will be more informed before they make a purchase decision. I know I was a member of this forum before or purchase was made. In retrospect, I wish there had been more Montana owners being more candid about their quality issues and repair costs. Even, with the somewhat muffled conversation about problem issues, I never expected the quantity of issues we have had to deal with. OK, so we have a Monday or Friday RV. We will just have to grin and bear it. Interestingly, it is a bit humorus how a persons mind can come to goofy conclusions. Since we have had so many problems come up and fixed under warranty, or were fixed by our own efforts, we allowed ourselves to think that since so much has been fixed not much more could go wrong. And therefore elected to not buy extended warranty. How wrong we were. Future or recently purchased Montana owners need to be aware of this.

But we have at least made some progress. After three attempts, over a two week period, to get our dealer to respond to our request for help in getting our Black Tank repaired, they finally responded this morning. I found it almost hilarious that within the first couple sentences they informed us that our unit was no longer in warranty. I would have never known that! :-) Duh! But no real helpful answers, just questions. Do you want us to see what Montana will help with? Gee whiz, of course we do! My plan is to get a hard fixed cost price for replacing the black tank, possibly from more than just our original dealer before any work is started. I will be and am very worried about what a time and material agreeemnt might end up with. Thanks to those who have been down this road, I know what the extended warranty companies are willing to pay for this work. That really helps. Which again shows how helpful MOC'ers are and how helpful this forum is. Thanks again.

[MacDR50]

Safety items aside we all decided to buy at the price we paid with the existing warranties including the clauses on consequential losses/damages. No one held a gun to my head and I bought knowing full well what I was buying wasn't perfect and may have hidden defects which I could not be expected to find during my own PDI. Am I unhappy with defects, of course I am. My recourse, as agreed by my acceptance of the conditions of the warranties is specified in the applicable warranty. Any defect that is tied to under engineering, sub-standard materials or workmanship which affects safety or results in loss of life or injury should be subject to government regulation and/or civil action. Any substantial deficiency which is related to mis-information or mis-representation by the manufacturer or seller is grounds for action for voiding the sales contract based on the failure to deliver the contracted goods. In some jurisdictions this may be enshrined in statute law e.g. A Consumer Protection Act. Since Keystone chooses the components they have a responsibility to ensure they are safe. The chain of liability is absolute and the test is due diligence.

If the whole unit is so poorly constructed/designed that it is unusable for the intended and understood purpose as represented by the vendor then an action for voiding of the sales contract for total failure to perform may be possible. Multiple failures of key components or repetitive failure of one key component may suffice to be grounds for such an action to succeed. Quality issues in the auto industry lead to the enactment of "Lemon Laws" in many jurisdictions. I wouldn't expect this to happen in the RV industry as RV's are luxury goods. I do expect more government regulation of safety components and higher licensing standards for operators. The boating industry has experienced these as the result of rising deaths and injuries related to recreational watercraft.

[bsmeaton]

Well said Roger. Nobody held a gun to my head either, and I even went back for seconds! Like Rich said, I was looking at the new sliding table and fireplace, not the wiring.

The RV and boat industry both suffer the same problem. No matter how pretty you make the graphics and seat covers on a boat, the powertrain will always be Volvo, or Mercruiser, and all the inherent problems each offer. When Mercruiser has a recall, it goes to every boat manufacturer, from the top end to the entry level. It hits them all.

When Dometic has a recall, it goes to every RV manufacturer, from the top MH to the entry level tent trailer. This time the Norcold folks lucked out, last time it was Norcold that had the problems.

The RV manufactureres have very little choice on the products they use, as it is still a specialized market. Instead of banding together to push on Keystone, band together and start a company of quality RV products to put the other yo-yos out of business. Just think of how many Apollo owners are out there looking for a quality alternative.

[Snownyet]

Ive wondered more than once how long the Frigidaire refrigerator in my home would last if I tossed on the back end of a trailer and towed it for thousands of miles. I still think the bottom line plays a role but the last 2 posts say alot, its not like theres dozens of appliance and RV equipment manufacturers lining up to sell these components to RV manufacturers. In fact If Dometic went out of business tomorrow, you could almost think the the rest of the RV industry wouldnt be far behind.

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by Snownyet

In fact If Dometic went out of business tomorrow, you could almost think the the rest of the RV industry wouldnt be far behind.

Not sure about that, Snownyet, because there will probably still be a demand for RVing. However, we all may be hauling around the old ice chests and stopping once a day to get another bag of ice. That cooler would look kinda comical, I believe, sitting in that blank hole in the wall where the Dometic/Norcold used to sit...

And Brad's new company would flourish. Until he had a recall...

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by Snownyet

Ive wondered more than once how long the Frigidaire refrigerator in my home would last if I tossed on the back end of a trailer and towed it for thousands of miles. I still think the bottom line plays a role but the last 2 posts say alot, its not like theres dozens of appliance and RV equipment manufacturers lining up to sell these components to RV manufacturers. In fact If Dometic went out of business tomorrow, you could almost think the the rest of the RV industry wouldnt be far behind.

IIRC, SOB are actually using residential refrigerators utilizing multiple battery configurations and a large inverter.

[dsprik]

That's a great concept, Will, although cost/weight prohibitive (probably) for Montana. I wonder if they are 3 way then, with Elect/Batt/Gas options? Probably not gas, though, if residential...

[meldelton]

When our refrigerator died on our Newfoundland Trip, we bought two Coleman coolers that have their own built-in cooling system. We have less space in our RV, but we have survived without our Dometic refrigerator. It surely would have been easier had Lee's Family RV in Maine been able to repair our refrigerator when they had it. Dale

[VanMan]

quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Snownyet

In fact If Dometic went out of business tomorrow, you could almost think the the rest of the RV industry wouldnt be far behind.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree, but we'd probably have Chinese-made RVs. Then we'd all be worried about the lead paint!!

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

That's a great concept, Will, although cost/weight prohibitive (probably) for Montana. I wonder if they are 3 way then, with Elect/Batt/Gas options? Probably not gas, though, if residential...

The unit we looked at was built by FR. I doubt they run on gas. I recall as a youngster we had a fridge that ran on natural gas, so I feel sure it could be done. Refrigerators don't use a whole lot of current on AC, so I don't think it would be a great challenge for Keystone to use one. Of course if you're boon docking, you might want to bring a generator along to charge the batteries.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

I suspect there are plenty of manufacturers who would be ready to step up to the plate to replace Dometic or Norcold if it was profitable for them to do so. One has to do some due dilegence as to why there seems to be only two current suppliers. I also suspect if we new all the facts we would find some very dirty linen.

[snfexpress]

Growing up at the end of Babine lake, in beautiful British Columbia, we were truely off the grid. To get to town, it was a 25 mile boat trip, then another 25 miles by dirt road.

We had two stoves, one fired by wood, the other was propane. Our refrigerator, likewise, was run on propane. To get these appliances, we went to a place that sold natural gas appliances and then on the way out, stopped at a hardware store and bought a different orifice. If I recall, the orifice was smaller than the one for NG.

[bsmeaton]

Conspiracy theory Dean?

Will the "refrigerator racketeers" be something our kids watch on History Channel in 30 years?

[Dean A Van Peursem]

I hope this is intended as being some kind of humor!

[meldelton]

Fellow MOCs,

When I started this discussion with my article, I did not intend for it to develop as it has developed. I simply wanted to share our experience with others, and to get feedback from you all. Please let's be balanced in our discussion.

Dale

[richfaa]

Remember folks when we compare our Rv's with our stick homes and the appliances in them.. These Rv's are Allegedly designed to travel down the road.. They have wheels and springs, etc, is it to much to expect that the appliances in them are designed to travel down the road. What do you think would happen if we pulled our stick house down the road??? What Don related usually does not occur on one trip or over a short period but they do happen on a regular basis. We had all of those problems and more...and ..there is no excuse for them to occur. Also recognize that it is a industry wide problem and that we are a large part of the problem as we allow it to occur. Don's letter to Keystone was a good thing and perhaps when something fails on our units , regardless of brand,we should do the same...Other than making excuses and alibi's for them happening.

Oh.. I do not believe that this forum is the proper vehicle to start a protest campaign with Keystone.That is way outside the Mission statement.. Don's method is the way to go..

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Dale,

Our discussions do have a tendency to "morf" to other places, unintended by the original poster.

One about tailgates comes to mind, ya had to be here.

Please don't take it personal!

[bsmeaton]

quote:Originally posted by Dean A Van Peursem

I also suspect if we new all the facts we would find some very dirty linen.

Dean, take it how you wish, as I have yours. You brought up the topic, I just tried to get you to expand on your remark.

quote:Originally posted by meldelton

When I started this discussion with my article, I did not intend for it to develop as it has developed. I simply wanted to share our experience with others, and to get feedback from you all. Please let's be balanced in our discussion. Dale

Now that is funny Dale. I can tell by the title of the topic you intended for this to stay mellow.

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Looks like this is the end of this discussion.

[Snownyet]

Im not just talking refigerators, I was being a bit sarcastic and having some fun with the Dometic comment but my point was Dometic products are everywhere on RV's today.