Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-03-2019, 03:03 PM   #1
RicTrim
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Holt
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #24377
Exclamation Brakes, or lack of....

Ok, here goes.... The admiral and I have a 2006 3000RK that we bought in outstanding condition a couple months ago. I drive a 2015 Chevy 2500 4WD HD with an 8 foot bed. We are based in Lansing Michigan... I had to come to Salt Lake City UT for work for approximately 5 weeks. So we left MI on Friday, and traveled uneventfully across I-80 to SLC. Until I got to the final downgrade into SLC. I had the trailer brakes on 8, and using the brake pedal tried to gently slow my descent (6% downgrade). Suddenly the truck brakes started grabbing and releasing, making us VERY uncomfortable. I had never experienced that ever, however this is the heaviest load I have ever taken down that type of grade. I immediately started using the trailer brake independently, applying it before using the brake pedal - and we finished the descent safely.

What did I do wrong here? Need some help.

Ric
RicTrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 04:02 PM   #2
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,137
M.O.C. #11206
Hi

Unfortunately the GM product with the OEM brake controller is all tied in to the ABS computer.

The grabbing and realizing was your ABS system preventing you from sliding the wheels.

I am under the impression the 2015 Duramax came with the exhaust brake.

If so use it.

Otherwise donít allow the speed to build high enough that you need to apply the brakes with a heavy foot. This is done by planning your descent and getting the speed you want before starting down and keeping it there with intermittent brake application.

Our 2009 Duramax doesnít have the exhaust brake and we have toured the entire western half of the US and did not have any brake problems in the Rockies or elsewhere.

I tow just under the GCW rating for the 3500 Duel wheel truck we have 23,300 lbs the rating is 23,500 lbs.

We test our trailer brakes at the annual axle service by having wife sit in the truck bed and when I tell her she pulls the emergency lanyard and the trailer brakes come on under full 12V from the trailer battery. This will lock up the brakes so donít do this above 5 MPH. If this process doesnít lock the trailer wheels then you have a brake problem with the trailer brakes.

We have 235,000 miles on the truck and 125,000 on the trailer both are 2009 vehicles.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 04:52 PM   #3
RicTrim
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Holt
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #24377
Don't have the Duramax - just the gas version....

Would a separate (independent) trailer brake controller be better? The computer was telling me that the "descent grade braking" was working - but you could have fooled me.

Ric
RicTrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 05:59 PM   #4
DQDick
Montana Master
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 16,443
M.O.C. #11455
Will your gear shift allow for a lower gear selection?
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, MorRyde pin box
2017 3500 Dodge Maxi Cab DRW 4X4, Pullrite Hitch
IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Bathroom door mod, DM 320 etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 06:09 PM   #5
JPDoege
Established Member
 
JPDoege's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Rockford
Posts: 26
M.O.C. #23236
Send a message via Skype™ to JPDoege
That is WAY too high for the brakes, There are many videos on YouTube for adjusting them. Basically on a flat surface drive 20mph, them squeeze the trailer brake controller, this should bring you to a smooth stop, brakes lock up on the trailer reduce the setting, no stop increase.

I had mine way to high and it sounds like what you are experiencing.

Good luck
__________________
Northern Illinois
2019 3790RD with Legacy package.2018 Ford F350 6.7l diesel dually.
Love building control panels for machine automation and fixing machines.
JPDoege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 08:32 PM   #6
RicTrim
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Holt
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #24377
I could have shifted from D to L, but was already at 5K on the tach.... Did not want to leave my tranny or engine halfway down the grade. Please keep your comments coming - got to get this figured out....

Ric
RicTrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 04:05 AM   #7
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,137
M.O.C. #11206
Hi



It sounds like you just didn’t manage your descent.

You should have started down at about 45 Mph. Then at 50 Mph apply brakes as needed to get back down to 45 Mph. Us a fair amount of braking to bring the speed down this gives you a short time period during the brake heat up and a longer time period before brakes are needed again.

As for the aftermarket brake controller that has been a thought that I have had but never did do it.

The GM OEM controller will not lock the trailer brakes even when set to 10 and applied by hand to full scale on the graph.

You can check the trailer brakes in the manner I described to make sure the trailer brakes are working properly. Be aware the person in the bed of the truck must be ready for rapid deceleration. Don’t leave the emergency brake pin out for any length of time that will damage the magnets that apply the brakes. I would suggest disconnecting the trailer battery and pull that pin and put it back in a couple of times so you can see how to get it back in without delay.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2019, 03:07 PM   #8
RV6A
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pine
Posts: 50
M.O.C. #19552
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicTrim View Post
I could have shifted from D to L, but was already at 5K on the tach....

Ric
How fast were you going? On the interstate I travel at 69 mph, this is what 2000 RPM and Overdrive gives me on my 6 speed manual diesel. It is also slightly faster than the Semi's run. Down grades I run 40-45, along with all the Semi's. They creep down for a reason.

My six speed has the following gears. Low, 1, 2, 3, 4 and OD. Granted it is a diesel with a flapper valve in the exhaust (exhaust brake). Gassers have the flapper valve (Butterfly) in the intake so the engine uses compression to brake instead of a potato stuffed in the exhaust.

This weekend I pulled the fiver over the Tunnel and Vail pass, both ways and seldom had to apply brakes. I come down these long steep grades at 40-45 MPH in 3rd with the exhaust flapper closed; engine RPM is around 2600. The higher the RPM the better the exhaust brake works (within reason). This is similar for a gasser. It is important to be in the proper gear and speed before descending, otherwise bad things happen.

Don't let the speed build. If you hit 45, slow down quickly to 40 and allow the brakes time to cool. By all means do not ride the brakes down the hill. Do not get in a hurry.
__________________
Gary Z.
Friends call me Z
2009 3075RL; Modded to our taste.
8500' MSL in Pine, Colorado
RV6A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 02:39 PM   #9
laverdur
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Albany
Posts: 147
M.O.C. #11972
I'd be looking at the trailer brakes. The symptom you describe with the TV brakes grabbing and releasing happened to me when the Monty brake wires were shorting to the inside of the axle tubes. Hard to diagnose when parked because it is road vibrations and bumps that cause the chaffed wires to move to the right position to short out. Your TV is new enough that it may have a sensor for the trailer that sends a signal to the trailer on the brake voltage pin. My truck reported trailer wiring problems. After hours of troubleshooting, I gave up and pulled the wires from the axles and saw all the chaffed insulation and where they had been shorting out. I bought a spool of wire, some butt connectors, some plastic wiremold and some zip

ties and ran the wires on the outside of the axles. No more trouble.
__________________
2012 3150RL. G614 tires. Hardwired surge protector. Level-Up Hydraulic leveling.
2013 F-350 Lariat 6.7 PSD SRW SC LB 4X4 OEM hitch, air self-leveling on rear. 57-gallon replacement fuel tank.
laverdur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
TAKPAK
Montana Master
 
TAKPAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #8238
One thing should be noted here; when testing the trailer brakes by pulling the safety brake pin on the trailer, make sure you have the main trailer plug UNPLUGGED from the tow vehicle. If you don't, the "backfeed" from the trailer battery and brakes into the truck's system tends to "scramble" the controller computer. Found this out the hard way. Fortunately, it finally did reset itself, after turning the truck off and back on a couple of times. This is on the "built in" (factory controllers). Don't know about aftermarket.
__________________
Terry and Patsy
Vietnam Veteran, US Navy
Retired, and enjoying life
TAKPAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:40 PM   #11
Keith Schweizer
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Jordan
Posts: 105
M.O.C. #8841
That drive you are referring to is Parley's Canyon. A real brake burner if your not ready for it. I have seen many a semi headed down that canyon smoking their brakes. Maintaining ones speed at or below 60, use a lower gear, light on the brakes. Get the truck to do all the work through tranny and engine rpm's. Tow Haul mode is a big help as I usually take that canyon on a regular basis pulling my 5er to my favorite cg's in the summer. Much easier now that I have a F-350 with the 6.7. Had F-350 with the 6.0 and that also worked well but on the brakes a little more. Just enough to keep speed at 60 or lower. Knowing where the "white knuckle" areas are helps as well.
__________________
2009 2955rl,G-614 Goodyear tires, Mor-ryde wet bolt kit, 50 amp progressive hard wired surge protector, solar panel, 4-6 volt Interstate batteries with charge indicator, Heavy duty tow hitch ,2-2000w Honda generators, Back up camera,2015 F-350,6.7,
Ride rite air bags, Line-X bed liner, 50 gallon Titan Pace Edwards bed cover
Keith Schweizer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:43 PM   #12
RV6A
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pine
Posts: 50
M.O.C. #19552
To bad the original poster never came back. He could learn a lot.
__________________
Gary Z.
Friends call me Z
2009 3075RL; Modded to our taste.
8500' MSL in Pine, Colorado
RV6A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #13
countrymomma
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Newell
Posts: 2
M.O.C. #8854
Did you know that there is a recall on the brake system of your pick up? Could have something to do with your issue. It is a large recall from 2014-2019 I believe.
countrymomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 07:12 AM   #14
RicTrim
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Holt
Posts: 5
M.O.C. #24377
I am reading, and learning a lot!!! I appreciate all of the comments and wisdom!
RicTrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 10:32 AM   #15
mlh
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 4,816
M.O.C. #2283
Some of the Chevy and other GM products have just been recalled for the vacuum break booster. Might check it out.
Lynwood
__________________
www.harrellsprec.com
Lynwood Harrell
323 RL HC 2008 F250
mlh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2019, 09:00 AM   #16
CarWin
Montana Fan
 
CarWin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Thornville
Posts: 492
M.O.C. #21110
30 plus year trucker here...DONT ever go down a hill faster than you go up that same hill!
__________________
Darwin & Carla
2018.5 3701LK Montana
2019 3500HD Denali Dually Duramax
CarWin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.